Author says give ebook to others to read. Publisher says copyright rules .. - Page 2

Lynx-lynx · 08-11-2013, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yue

I'm Australian and understood this perfectly. The issue is with your comprehension.

Bully for you

Do you support that Amazon doesn't have an Aus website?

Do you support that we don't know how much we pay for an ebook in AUD?

Do you belong to Prime or think it would be a waste of your AUD?

What did you understand about the author's intention prior to reading the views of the experienced forum members?

yue · 08-11-2013, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Bully for you

Do you support that Amazon doesn't have an Aus website?

Do you support that we don't know how much we pay for an ebook in AUD?

I don't care one way or the other.

Quote:

Do you belong to Prime or think it would be a waste of your AUD?

I'm not a regular of Amazon. If I was a regular, I would probably sign up to Prime.

Quote:

What did you understand about the author's intention prior to reading the views of the experienced forum members?

As I said, the issue is with your comprehension of the quoted section.

It was very clear to me what was intended. Lending-enabled means this is enabled for lending through the vendor, not please pirate this book.

AnemicOak · 08-11-2013, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Gosh so the various lending and copyright info related to Amazon Prime stuff eh. Mmmm, no wonder it didn't make sense to me

Lending has nothing to do with Prime.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200549320

Lynx-lynx · 08-11-2013, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Lending has nothing to do with Prime.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200549320

Thanks for that info

As I've not tried to lend or borrow an Amazon ebook before I thought I'd give it a try.

So, I used the Manage your Kindle option and got the following:

'In the Actions menu, select Loan this title. If Loan this title is not an option, lending is unavailable for the title. '

The Black Mile, as we have been told by the author, is available for elending.

But the Actions menu does not provide that option for Australia.

As the ebook is free anyway .....

Lynx-lynx · 08-11-2013, 05:16 AM

The following are the only options I get from the Product Detail Page (well, I assume that this is the product detail page):

The Black Mile (Soho Noir Thrillers, #1) by Mark Dawson (Mar 18, 2012)

$0.00 Kindle Purchase
Borrow this book for free on Kindle ePrime
Auto-delivered wirelessly
$15.99 $15.19 Paperback ePrime
Order in the next 32 hours and get it by Tuesday, Aug 13.

--------------------------
Edit
Just found the Product Details page that I suspect is being referred to:

Product Details

File Size: 494 KB
Print Length: 423 pages
Page Numbers Source ISBN: 1482051346
Publisher: Black Dog Publishing (March 18, 2012)
Sold by: Amazon Digital Services, Inc.
Language: English
ASIN: B007M9UM14
Text-to-Speech: Enabled
X-Ray: Enabled
Lending: Not Enabled

Prime members read for free Join Amazon Prime
Books: See all 361 items

What a joke after all that

So it seems one can accept the information as given provided one lives in the US ....

Yapyap · 08-11-2013, 05:43 AM

I'm fairly sure the Kindle person-to-person lending feature is for US customers only, yes. Amazon doesn't really do a good job explaining that in their descriptions for the feature, unfortunately.

Lynx-lynx · 08-11-2013, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yapyap

I'm fairly sure the Kindle person-to-person lending feature is for US customers only, yes. Amazon doesn't really do a good job explaining that in their descriptions for the feature, unfortunately.

Thank you for that info Yapyap

Yet Amazon seem happy enough to include unnecessary and inaccurate information in the ebooks they sell outside the US.

Inaccurate because the info doesn't state which countries are able to act on that information.

Does Estonia have its own Amazon site? Do you need to use another country's Amazon site?
-------

Edit

Yapyap I should've also asked you whether the ebook is also free for you, and if you can lend it.

pdurrant · 08-11-2013, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Thank you for that info Yapyap

Yet Amazon seem happy enough to include unnecessary and inaccurate information in the ebooks they sell outside the US.

To be fair to Amazon, it sounds like the author included the text in the book that failed to mention the situation outside the US.

Yapyap · 08-11-2013, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Thank you for that info Yapyap

Does Estonia have its own Amazon site? Do you need to use another country's Amazon site?

Amazon.com, just like everyone else outside the handful of countries with their own Amazon sites and Kindle stores.

Quote:

Yapyap I should've also asked you whether the ebook is also free for you, and if you can lend it.

It's free; the info says "Lending: Enabled" but I cannot actually lend it, no, not when I'm signed in with my actual address. As I actually "bought" the free book (as an Estonian), I also checked "as an American" (I've had to change locations sometimes to buy geo-restricted books) and I could lend it, if I wanted to, when signed in with a US address. (That would then be subject to the "lend this book only once, ever, to one person of your choosing" rules that Amazon has for lending.)

Of course as long as the book is free, lending doesn't seem relevant, but non-public-domain books rarely remain free forever.

(Also, as far as I know, US customers [i.e. customers signed in with a US address] can lend lendable books to friends in other countries. I'm not sure, however, if that applies to geo-restricted books as well - I'm fairly sure that Amazon doesn't allow one to gift a Kindle book to someone in a country where the person isn't allowed to buy it, so I assume the same goes for lending.)

Yapyap · 08-11-2013, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

To be fair to Amazon, it sounds like the author included the text in the book that failed to mention the situation outside the US.

Quite. It's not up to Amazon - nor should it be - to check every book's author's notes and edit them in any way they seem fit, such as remove content when selling the book to people in other countries.

It's quite possible the author doesn't even know that lending is currently a US-only feature - many people are not aware of that restriction.

Lynx-lynx · 08-11-2013, 06:49 AM

I disagree generally about both your above sentiments re lending being an Author's note.

Amazon is quite able to discern which country the member is located in, so therefore should sell the ebooks with info relevant to that country.

That's not as complicated or hard as it sounds - Amazon already is aware of the member's domain so it just needs to include on the sale page for example, that if it is mentioned in the ebook that it is lendable that that info won't apply to Australia. (or wherever)

From a consumer's perspective it is information relevant to sale.

(I think someone from Aus needs to take Amazon to Fair Trading, or Consumer Affairs as it may be known in other States, re their approach to selling in Aus, because they seem inconsistent with Aus standards. Amazon needs to be tested against our standards )

Yapyap · 08-11-2013, 06:56 AM

I am certainly not expecting Amazon to read through every single book they're selling, in order to know whether there is country-specific information included in author's notes, footnotes, honorary mentions or whatever.

It would be very nice if the publisher - the people responsible for adding any of the relevant data on the book's page, such as the description - included such information, though.

Lynx-lynx · 08-11-2013, 08:13 AM

Hmmm, maybe the seller needs to tell the publisher to supply the seller with that info or they won't sell it.

That would sort it from that aspect, but Amazon still needs to be upfront re the countries that theIr lending scheme isn't applicable to.

HarryT · 08-11-2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Gosh so the various lending and copyright info related to Amazon Prime stuff eh. Mmmm, no wonder it didn't make sense to me

No, lending has nothing whatsoever to do with Prime.

EDIT: I see that someone else has already explained this.

calvin-c · 08-11-2013, 03:04 PM

There are several possibilities mentioned about the contract between the author & publisher. This would, of course, affect the author's ability to override the publisher's rules. Assuming the author does have that ability however US courts have generally held that the least restrictive clause applies. Exceptions have been made when the various terms are dated, then the most recent tends to be enforced. These appear to be undated.

08-11-2013, 05:16 AM	#20
Lynx-lynx Treachery of images ... Posts: 4,122 Karma: 93720365 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Australia Device: Sony 650, Kobo Glo, H2O, Aura One, Forma, Libra 2, Libra Colour	The following are the only options I get from the Product Detail Page (well, I assume that this is the product detail page): The Black Mile (Soho Noir Thrillers, #1) by Mark Dawson (Mar 18, 2012) $0.00 Kindle Purchase Borrow this book for free on Kindle ePrime Auto-delivered wirelessly $15.99 $15.19 Paperback ePrime Order in the next 32 hours and get it by Tuesday, Aug 13. -------------------------- Edit Just found the Product Details page that I suspect is being referred to: Product Details File Size: 494 KB Print Length: 423 pages Page Numbers Source ISBN: 1482051346 Publisher: Black Dog Publishing (March 18, 2012) Sold by: Amazon Digital Services, Inc. Language: English ASIN: B007M9UM14 Text-to-Speech: Enabled X-Ray: Enabled Lending: Not Enabled Prime members read for free Join Amazon Prime Books: See all 361 items What a joke after all that So it seems one can accept the information as given provided one lives in the US .... Last edited by Lynx-lynx; 08-11-2013 at 05:37 AM. Reason: add the last line

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08-11-2013, 05:43 AM	#21
Yapyap Guru Posts: 861 Karma: 3543721 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Estonia Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad 3, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge	I'm fairly sure the Kindle person-to-person lending feature is for US customers only, yes. Amazon doesn't really do a good job explaining that in their descriptions for the feature, unfortunately.

08-11-2013, 06:49 AM	#26
Lynx-lynx Treachery of images ... Posts: 4,122 Karma: 93720365 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Australia Device: Sony 650, Kobo Glo, H2O, Aura One, Forma, Libra 2, Libra Colour	I disagree generally about both your above sentiments re lending being an Author's note. Amazon is quite able to discern which country the member is located in, so therefore should sell the ebooks with info relevant to that country. That's not as complicated or hard as it sounds - Amazon already is aware of the member's domain so it just needs to include on the sale page for example, that if it is mentioned in the ebook that it is lendable that that info won't apply to Australia. (or wherever) From a consumer's perspective it is information relevant to sale. (I think someone from Aus needs to take Amazon to Fair Trading, or Consumer Affairs as it may be known in other States, re their approach to selling in Aus, because they seem inconsistent with Aus standards. Amazon needs to be tested against our standards )

08-11-2013, 06:56 AM	#27
Yapyap Guru Posts: 861 Karma: 3543721 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Estonia Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad 3, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge	I am certainly not expecting Amazon to read through every single book they're selling, in order to know whether there is country-specific information included in author's notes, footnotes, honorary mentions or whatever. It would be very nice if the publisher - the people responsible for adding any of the relevant data on the book's page, such as the description - included such information, though.

08-11-2013, 08:13 AM	#28
Lynx-lynx Treachery of images ... Posts: 4,122 Karma: 93720365 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Australia Device: Sony 650, Kobo Glo, H2O, Aura One, Forma, Libra 2, Libra Colour	Hmmm, maybe the seller needs to tell the publisher to supply the seller with that info or they won't sell it. That would sort it from that aspect, but Amazon still needs to be upfront re the countries that theIr lending scheme isn't applicable to.

08-11-2013, 03:04 PM	#30
calvin-c Guru Posts: 787 Karma: 1575310 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Moon+ Pro	There are several possibilities mentioned about the contract between the author & publisher. This would, of course, affect the author's ability to override the publisher's rules. Assuming the author does have that ability however US courts have generally held that the least restrictive clause applies. Exceptions have been made when the various terms are dated, then the most recent tends to be enforced. These appear to be undated.

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