Price of ebooks and copyrights

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by avantman42

To someone who doesn't know otherwise, I suspect it would seem reasonable to expect that if they buy an e-reader, they'll be able to buy books wherever they want. After all, if you buy a music player, you'll be able to play MP3s on it, regardless of where you bought them.

This, This, a million times, THIS. I bought a Sansa Clip. I stick mp3s from podcasts on it. Done. Out of the box. No need for a special "desktop" either. Just me and my USB cord.

Prior to buying an e-reader I actually thought I did do my homework. After all, I liberally played around with calibre for several hours per day, and downloaded all kinds of public domain books in various formats. I taught myself in general, to convert my books from other "formats" to epub, which is what I learned the Sony and Kobo (the two I was most looking at) used. I thought I had enough experience under my belt to "do" e-books.

I then learned, with a shock, that even an epub isnt an epub across the board AFTER I bought my reader.

All I can say now is, it's a good thing I happen to prefer most of my titles be public domain. and I now give Smashwords (and the like) a chance because they actually want to sell a book to ME, not to only one type of machine.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I then learned, with a shock, that even an epub isnt an epub across the board AFTER I bought my reader.

Despite spending many hours on this forum, I didn't realise that I'd assumed that any ePub would work on any ePub-compatible device.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by avantman42

Despite spending many hours on this forum, I didn't realise that I'd assumed that any ePub would work on any ePub-compatible device.

It's silly really. Story books really are just bits of compressed text. It shouldn't BE complicated. I admit I was taken aback when I found out that some books had become like video games on a console, that they come in kinds. Books used to be the simplest things on the planet...

Therefore I stick with places that also agree that books should be simple.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by avantman42

Despite spending many hours on this forum, I didn't realise that I'd assumed that any ePub would work on any ePub-compatible device.

It's true for MOST ePub stores; the exceptions being Apple and B&N.

[Pinecone]

The problem is not differing versions of epubs, but the differing versions of DRM.

If one were to remove the DRM, the epub would work on any epub reader.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

If one were to remove the DRM, the epub would work on any epub reader.

... and could be converted to any format for use on any reader. Lately I've been using just my Kindles, and Calibre is nice enough to automatically convert the liberated ePubs to mobi when I send books to the Kindle.

Originally Posted by Soldim

I love judgmental people, especially if they base their judgment on facts known to a rather small part of the general population.

That I am, but I think you may be missing the point. I am not judging them for their lack of research. (Heck, I got locked into Amazon when I bought my first ereader because I was not aware of DRM.) I am judging the person for using that as an excuse for piracy.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

That I am, but I think you may be missing the point. I am not judging them for their lack of research. (Heck, I got locked into Amazon when I bought my first ereader because I was not aware of DRM.) I am judging the person for using that as an excuse for piracy.

Gotta agree on this one. Especially as they already owned a paper copy.

I have bought many items tha were non-returnable that didn't fit, didn't work or were otherwise unusable.

Wasn't happy, but that is sometimes how it goes. It actually did not occur to me to just take a similiar item without paying for it.

Helen

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I have bought many items tha were non-returnable that didn't fit, didn't work or were otherwise unusable.

Wasn't happy, but that is sometimes how it goes. It actually did not occur to me to just take a similiar item without paying for it.

You mean you didn't go to the competitor's store to shoplift a pair of pants in the right size after buying a pair that was the wrong size? I mean, it should be your right to do so!

Actually, I find the culture of entitlement that surrounds digital media to be a bit distressing. Things that we wouldn't have given a second thought to in the past because it was unacceptable is suddenly acceptable. Different people will draw the line in different places. Some will draw the line at piracy. Others (like myself) will draw the line at format shifting. Yet others will have a very hard-line approach. But I also believe that we have to take some responsibility for our actions and consider the needs of others. Of course that goes both ways. Kobo should have given a one-time refund. On the other hand, the purchaser shouldn't have taken that as an excuse for piracy when they didn't get a refund.

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

... and could be converted to any format for use on any reader. Lately I've been using just my Kindles...

Amazon is the only retailer that still insists on using a silly proprietary format, instead of the industry standard.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's true for MOST ePub stores; the exceptions being Apple and B&N.

The exception being JUST Apple. Take that B&N DRMed ePub, load it into Calibre and BAM, it's ready to load on my 650. Of course, I have the software/[plugins setup to automatically remove the DRM when loaded into Calibre.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Amazon is the only retailer that still insists on using a silly proprietary format, instead of the industry standard.

Not the ONLY one. Apple's flavor of ePub is not fully compatible.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Amazon is the only retailer that still insists on using a silly proprietary format, instead of the industry standard.

Amazon owns the format. Why shouldn't they use it? Who decides what format is the "industry standard?" What's wrong with having format options? It's not like .mobi files can't be converted.

[Soldim]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

Amazon owns the format. Why shouldn't they use it? Who decides what format is the "industry standard?" What's wrong with having format options? It's not like .mobi files can't be converted.

DRMed mobi files, as well as DRMed ePubs can't be converted out of the box.

Personally, I consider business practice that results in customers being unaware of getting locked in to a vendor or ending up with nonconvertible, unusable ebooks morally questionable. Actually, for me it's in exactly the same ballpark as piracy -- in one case one risks paying for a product on can't use, in the other case one uses a product one might not pay for. The difference for Joe Customer is that in the first case he looses out, in the other he doesn't.

Hence, Amazon & Co are certainly free to use any format they want, with any DRM scheme they consider appropriate and issue any amount of incompatible devices. But, I personally can't find the slightest amount of pity for those displaying these kind of business practices and feel disdain if they complain about piracy which I consider a logical consequence of their actions.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

Who decides what format is the "industry standard?"

My understanding is that a format is considered a standard if it is ratified by a standards body. I believe ePub has been ratified by such a body, and Mobi hasn't.

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

What's wrong with having format options? It's not like .mobi files can't be converted.

Multiple formats cause problems, especially when those formats are closed and not documented. Mobi files can be converted because people put a lot of effort into working out how to do so. If the format was open and documented, the process would have been quicker and easier. When a format is closed and undocumented, the people who write the conversion tools can't be sure that the conversion will always work. Personally, I'm more interested in "open and documented" than "industry standard". An open, documented format can be worked with, whether it's been ratified by a standards body or not.

I can't see any benefit to the consumer from multiple formats in this case. Assuming DRM is not involved, it's not particularly difficult to convert ePub to Mobi or vice-versa, but if there were only one or the other, conversion wouldn't be necessary at all. If every e-reader were able to read every ebook without any need for conversion, that would be a good thing for consumers.