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Old 06-12-2012, 04:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Besides, the legislation doesn't prevent the institution making money from the orphan works, as long as all that money is used to pay for the scanning and other costs.
The legislation should allow all uses; including those for profit.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:44 AM   #17
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The legislation should allow all uses; including those for profit.
I disagree, at least as a first step, and I suspect the discussion won't get much beyond repeating these two lines.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:00 AM   #18
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It's ridiculous to only go half way. But hey, it's their legislation and they have the right to screw it up if they want.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:18 AM   #19
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It's ridiculous to only go half way. But hey, it's their legislation and they have the right to screw it up if they want.
Well, it is the EU, after all. They haven't tried anything yet they didn't screw up (as will soon be clear to all as the currency fails and the union dissolves).
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:20 AM   #20
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I don't think owners of orphaned works are due compensation. If they were interested in the work at all it wouldn't have been orphaned. They had plenty of time to register a copyright and or get it published and or release it to the public or whatever. If they want to stop sales fine, but compensation for something lost and ignored for decades no.
This.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:14 AM   #21
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1. Change my name to "Orphan Works"
2. ???
3. Profit!
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
The legislation should allow all uses; including those for profit.
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
I disagree, at least as a first step, and I suspect the discussion won't get much beyond repeating these two lines.
Well, one reason to allow for profit uses would be getting these orphaned works back into circulation. Nobody will print something if they can't make even a little off it.
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:24 AM   #23
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Well, one reason to allow for profit uses would be getting these orphaned works back into circulation. Nobody will print something if they can't make even a little off it.
Project Guttenberg, Wikipedia, Open Street Map - Lots of free crowd sourced stuff nowadays.
No reason why OrphanedWorks.org couldn't work, crowd source the creation/editing of the title the government/libraries have provided.
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:31 AM   #24
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I really hope that legislation comes to pass. Now if only the U.S. could be as sensible.
decide for either one or another

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Originally Posted by bgalbrecht View Post
From what I understand, the Berne Convention requires works to be automatically copyrighted without needing registration, so the EU has no copyright registration.
exactly
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:06 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
The current stats on Gallica (the digital side of the French National Library) are:

<snip>

They seem to be happy to do it without making a profit, and I imagine they would jump on the orphan works very quickly.

Besides, the legislation doesn't prevent the institution making money from the orphan works, as long as all that money is used to pay for the scanning and other costs.
This is the national library - they have their fundings from elsewhere. Wikipedia and Project Gutenberg are mentioned - How many errors are there in Gutenberg files? How many articles on wikipedia needs to be updated and expanded? Could there be errors on Wikipedia that are not detected? I'd say it's likely.

I'm not saying that it's not good enough, I'm simply saying that orphaned books could benefit from proper treatment. Making profits of it could encourage independent publishers to do some of the work for digitizing. If the works owner claims his/her rights, the worst things thay could happen is that he/she gets, for free, a digital version of the book/film/whatever and can sell legitimate copies of it.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #26
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I don't think owners of orphaned works are due compensation. If they were interested in the work at all it wouldn't have been orphaned. They had plenty of time to register a copyright and or get it published and or release it to the public or whatever. If they want to stop sales fine, but compensation for something lost and ignored for decades no.
There is no register of copyrighted material, but before one tries to digitize something and sells it as orphaned, one will make sure that the likelyhood of an owner claiming the rights is minimal. If an owner steps forward, the person/company doing the digitizing will not only loose the income from the sales of the orphaned work, but the legitimate owner could use the digitized version for free, sell it and make money for free of these files. Isn't that compensation enough?

From this, I would assume, that the risk of fraud of copyrighted material under this legislation is minimal. Or am I just naive?
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:43 AM   #27
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This is the national library - they have their fundings from elsewhere. Wikipedia and Project Gutenberg are mentioned - How many errors are there in Gutenberg files? How many articles on wikipedia needs to be updated and expanded? Could there be errors on Wikipedia that are not detected? I'd say it's likely.

I'm not saying that it's not good enough, I'm simply saying that orphaned books could benefit from proper treatment. Making profits of it could encourage independent publishers to do some of the work for digitizing. If the works owner claims his/her rights, the worst things thay could happen is that he/she gets, for free, a digital version of the book/film/whatever and can sell legitimate copies of it.
If anyone tries to make a go of it for money then I can't see them chucking any more resources at it than SF Gateway has for backlist sci-fi (Science Fiction/SyFy/Skiffy/Whatever/don't want to resurect that thread again) so in general there are less OCR errors at Project Gutenburg than the books you get from SF Gateway. The important thing is that you CAN get the books and crowdsourcing the editing means that they will be error free eventually (and probably quicker than a, minimum resource, quick buck seller would do).
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:57 AM   #28
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This is the national library - they have their fundings from elsewhere.
Yes, that is who this legislation is aimed at, libraries, museums and similar organisations.

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Wikipedia and Project Gutenberg are mentioned - How many errors are there in Gutenberg files?
Compared to the errors in Google Book files?
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:20 PM   #29
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It is actually quite heartening that such seemingly sensible solutions can still be proposed, that appear to benefit the public rather than corporations.
Which pretty much guarantees that something similar would never pass in the US.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:47 PM   #30
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(Save our Culture from the ravages of Time?)

Before writing off non-profit, look how far Project Gutenberg has gotten...All from free labor)
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