"Other " Civil War recommendations

[bfisher]

Spanish civil war - George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" - about Orwell's experience as a Republican volunteer. It is available to readers in some countries, depending on local copyright laws, here : http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0201111.txt

[Mike L]

Stonetools,

I hesitate to criticise other people's knowledge of history (being of above-average ignorance myself). But you're some way off the mark in this case.

The Wars of the Roses was an English affair, and had nothing to do with Scotland. Edward I was an English king. Although it's true there were many conflicts between the English (the Anglo Saxons to which you refer) and the Scots, these were not civil wars in any sense of the word.

When I said that our history seemed to be one long civil war, I was thinking first of the on-going fighting between the Picts, Gaels, Scots, etc; then between the many claimants to the Scottish throne following the death of Alexander III in 1286; between Protestant and Catholic factions in later centuries; and finally between Jacobites and Hanoverians in the 18th Century.

By the way, I believe that James VI was the first Scottish monarch to die of natual causes. That was as late as 1625.

Mike

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Stonetools,

I hesitate to criticise other people's knowledge of history (being of above-average ignorance myself). But you're some way off the mark in this case.

The Wars of the Roses was an English affair, and had nothing to do with Scotland. Edward I was an English king. Although it's true there were many conflicts between the English (the Anglo Saxons to which you refer) and the Scots, these were not civil wars in any sense of the word.

When I said that our history seemed to be one long civil war, I was thinking first of the on-going fighting between the Picts, Gaels, Scots, etc; then between the many claimants to the Scottish throne following the death of Alexander III in 1286; between Protestant and Catholic factions in later centuries; and finally between Jacobites and Hanoverians in the 18th Century.

By the way, I believe that James VI was the first Scottish monarch to die of natual causes. That was as late as 1625.

Mike

You're right on your history. We don't disagree : we just misunderstand due to my unclear explanations. .
The Wars of the Roses was a ( mostly)internal English affair, although France played a part and benefitted (English possessions in France were lost during the conflict).
The varios wars England fought against Scotland (and Ireland and Wales) have been interpreted by some as a long campaign of agression by an Anglo-Saxon center based in England against a Celtic fringe living in those areas- a campaign that lasted to the Jacobite rebellion and maybe to Irish independence. Its a hotly contested theory. See
'HERE for a declaration that the Celts " will rise again".

You are right that the Celts (including those in Scotland ) have historically fought among themselves.

[Mike L]

Stonetools,

All I said was that the history of Scotland seems to be one long civil war. I never mentioned England (or Wales, or Ireland). That's why I said your remarks about the Wars of the Roses and Edward I were not relevant (I'm not saying they're inaccurate, of course).

Anyway, let's not fall out over this. It's an interesting discussion.

Of course, when I say the history of Scotland was one long civil war, I don't mean it literally. But it does seem to be dominated by an unusual amount of internal conflict - more than any other country I can think of.

Mike

[stonetools]

Scots Wha Hae

'Scots, who have with Wallace bled,
Scots, whom Bruce has often led,
Welcome to your gory bed
Or to victory.

Not too pacifistic, those lyrics. Maybe you can add some recommendations about Scottish history. I'd be interested. Like most non-Brits, I tend to think of British history as "English history, with some footnotes". I'd welcome some insights about the history of the "other Brits".

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Maybe you can add some recommendations about Scottish history.

I'd like to, but unfortunately I don't know many books on Scottish history that give a good general overview for someone new to the subject. One possibility is J. D. Mackie's A History of Scotland, published by Penguin, which is available as a ebook (Kindle format, and possibly others). It's very thorough, and has the benefit of a "real" index (I wish more non-fiction books did).

Personally, what I'd like to have is a Scottish version of Kenneth Davis' Don't Know Much About History. But I don't suppose we'll ever get one.

Mike