Used bookstores, harbors of piracy?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

The law needs to change and if it doesn't people will ignore the law and do it anyway.
The music industry learned the hard way, I expect publishers will have to as well.

In what way did "the music industry learn"? Last time I looked, it still wasn't legal to re-sell music downloaded from iTunes.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In what way did "the music industry learn"? Last time I looked, it still wasn't legal to re-sell music downloaded from iTunes.

You're right there's still things that need sorting out, but the DRM has been removed from most music now and the being able to pass on your music is being contested in places and in some cases people have won the right to do so.

I was more referring to the DRM side, not so much the passing on music side.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

I was more referring to the DRM side, not so much the passing on music side.

It's the "passing on" side that's the subject of this thread, hence my wondering in what way the digital music industry was better than the digital book industry in that respect.

[ucfgrad93]

Giggleton is worried about authors not getting paid from sales at a used bookstore? Did I wake up in a parallel universe?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

I'm not very happy that I'm not legally allowed to give ebooks that I have bought to other people. I suspect that will change one day tho.

The law needs to change and if it doesn't people will ignore the law and do it anyway.

They already do, but you've absolutely no chance of it ever being sanctioned by publishers or enshrined in law. Everything is swinging in the opposite direction, you're more likely to see additional restrictions on what you can do with your digital files.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

If I buy a physical book, it's mine, I'm going to do with it what I want whether I keep it, give it to someone, give it to a library whatever.

Yes you own the book, the container for the art. But do you own the art?

In the premodern copyright era 1500-1700? The idea of intellectual property did not really exist, at least in law. A book was a book, both the container and the art contained within. Only in the modern copyright era 1700-1900? was a book divided into the container, the paper, and the ideas contained on the pages.

I suppose we are now in the postmodern era of copyright, all that exists is the idea, the text. Previous laws do not apply.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Some news that might be relevant, have a nice day everyone!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...,6351259.story

Let's see if I understand this correctly.

Say you live in New York, home of the 2nd circuit appeals court that ruled against the Thai graduate student in the link above.

You go for a day trip (in some cases, it could just be a short stoll) to Canada. You buy a book. Bring it home. Finish it. Then, your only choices are to trash it or let it permanently take up space in your residence. Did I read this correctly?

Here is an article describing the problem:

Students Find $100 Textbooks Cost $50, Purchased Overseas

[leebase]

Used books and ebooks are not analogous. There is no such thing as a used ebook. Otherwise, an author could sell one ebook. That person could then give everyone else in the entire world a copy of his "used ebook".

Used books are a fact of life in a physical book world. However, there are downsides to used books. They aren't in as nice a condition. They are hither, thither, helter skelter. If you want ANY book, used books are easy. If you want a PARTICULAR book, it's a bit harder to find it used (less so in today's internet world, but you do have to pay for shipping and wait).

Not so for ebooks. Every copy of an ebook is the same. There is no declining quality. There is no extra hassle. There's basically no incentive to buy a new ebook verses a pirated ebook in terms of the quality of the book (talking about cracked versions, not scans).

Whether piracy fulfills the marketing niche similar to used books or not is not relevant. It is the author/publisher who has the right to decide whether they wish to seed the market with free copies of their work.

To decide on one's own to pirate a book -- that's just theft, and pirates are thieves...not "used book buyers".

Lee

[crossi]

Did anyone say anything about giving everyone else in the world a copy? With an Amazon book at least one could remove the book from each of your devices freeing all licenses, then tell Amazon you want to transfer the license to someone else. True if you kept a backup copy you could sideload that copy for the life of your current device but electronics die eventually and you wouldn't be able to use it on a new device. A used market for ebooks is possible. Just not likely to be implimented. If publishers could they would do away with used (paper) bookstores and libraries also.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It IS illegal in many places. Where I live, for example, rubbish belong to its owner until it's collected, at which point ownership of it is transferred to either the local council or their appointed rubbish collection contractor.

In most countries possession is nine, tenths of the law, well maybe eight anyway, so you would have to prove that you owned the contents of your trash can, with receipts etc.

I don't know if many people have read a Condition of Sale notice or if it is used world-wide, but the basic one goes like this:

“This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out or otherwise circulated without the publishers prior consent in a binding or cover other than which it is published.”

It sounds as if the publishers put more emphasis on the cover than they do on the actual work. It also implies that you can do any of the above as long as you don't change the cover or binding.

[HarryT]

The specific reason for that clause is to stop the resale of remaindered books. When a book is remaindered, the bookstore tears off the cover, returns the cover to the publisher, and is then supposed to properly dispose of the rest of the book. If you buy a book with no cover, the sale is almost certainly illegal.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The specific reason for that clause is to stop the resale of remaindered books. When a book is remaindered, the bookstore tears off the cover, returns the cover to the publisher, and is then supposed to properly dispose of the rest of the book. If you buy a book with no cover, the sale is almost certainly illegal.

That being so why on earth is this particular copyright notice in an ebook? ebooks don't get remaindered and have their cover torn off.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

That being so why on earth is this particular copyright notice in an ebook? ebooks don't get remaindered and have their cover torn off.

Er....It isn't to my knowledge. The original post was about pbooks, not ebooks, unless you're going to throw away your ereader!

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by crossi

With an Amazon book at least one could remove the book from each of your devices freeing all licenses, then tell Amazon you want to transfer the license to someone else. True if you kept a backup copy you could sideload that copy for the life of your current device .

It would probably require DRM to be left intact, but Amazon can remotely remove ebooks from people's Kindles, so I doubt it would be particularly difficult to make sure you never put an ebook back on after you had sold it.

[plib]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It IS illegal in many places. Where I live, for example, rubbish belong to its owner until it's collected, at which point ownership of it is transferred to either the local council or their appointed rubbish collection contractor.

So, presumably, that's why some UK local councils can pursue their asinine £110 ticketing scam on raised garbage bin lids?

And what's the legal position when the TV cops raid the garbage for evidence?

"Poisoned fruit, M'Lud"?