Apple in trouble again - Page 2

Rob Lister · 03-28-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Actually that isn't true.
Take a look at the screenshot in the linked article, it says exactly which networks it works on, and lists only US and Canada for 4G.

Concur

note footnote 2 (superscripts don't work on this forum software

)

Quote:

Built with the latest in wireless technology, the new iPad lets you connect to fast data networks around the world — up to 4G LTE.[sup]2[/sup]

footnote at end of page.

Quote:

2. 4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S. and on Bell, Rogers, and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details

sabredog · 03-28-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Actually that isn't true.
Take a look at the screenshot in the linked article, it says exactly which networks it works on, and lists only US and Canada for 4G.

If that was the case then, the ACCC would not have taken Apple to court for misleading customers.

murraypaul · 03-28-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabredog

If that was the case then, the ACCC would not have taken Apple to court

I don't think the ACC claimed:

Quote:

Apple describes the device as "+ 4G," and claims it works with international 4G networks, but does not mention it won't work on Australian 4G networks.

which is what I was responding to.

Sil_liS · 03-28-2012, 10:34 AM

All of this is just a result of lack of standardization of wireless networks.

murraypaul · 03-28-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

All of this is just a result of lack of standardization of wireless networks.

Yup, doesn't seem to get any better, does it?

cHex · 03-28-2012, 01:28 PM

That's what I said. The ad says which networks it works on. I ALSO said the ad does not say it won't work on Australian 4G networks. In other words, everything the ad says is true; it's just that it omits a very important fact--the touted 4G feature distinguishing it from other models does not work in the country in which the device is being marketed.

sabredog · 03-28-2012, 11:05 PM

Well, the Federal Court has decided Apple misled Australian customers.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/ap...-1226313215440

Mediation between the Apple and the ACCC has been set for April with a hearing on liability scheduled for May 2.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/295296...4g-claims.aspx

Andrew H. · 03-28-2012, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabredog

Well, the Federal Court has decided Apple misled Australian customers.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/ap...-1226313215440

Not really. You should read beyond the headline. The federal court "accepted" Apple's offer to notify customers that they weren't offering 4G LTE, but there was no "decision" by the court that Apple misled customers. It's also interesting that Apple only uses the term 4G LTE and not 4G in its explanation. Presumably because what Apple offers is 4G.

sabredog · 03-29-2012, 12:18 AM

Like I said before, the ACCC would not have pursued Apple if it felt it did not have a case to answer. It plainly does.

geenp · 03-29-2012, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

At least according to the ITU, the iPad's HSPA+ is 4G. Is there a reason why this would be different in Australia?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374564,00.asp

I don't agree with the reclassification of the iPhone 4S as 4G or the new iPad at HSPA+ speeds as 4G. This all started with Samsung's Galaxy S II being branded as 4G when it was HSPA+, probably because ATT had nothing to compete with. The use of <insert number>G to describe wireless technology has always been silly to me as stuff that runs at the same old slow speeds can get classified as "cutting edge". I think it was wrong of the ITU to to classify HSPA+ as 4G, the theoretical speeds may be up there but in practice it is nowhere near the experience of LTE right now and this is all just confusing to customers. Having said that, I don't think it was wrong of Apple to brand the iPad as 4G, it is a 4G device. Caveat emptor.

sabredog · 03-29-2012, 01:55 AM

Apple would full well know that one of their devices is not a compatible 4G device locally in Australia.

The ACCC takes a dim view of misleading advertising or advertising where full facts are not made apparent to a customer at time of purchase.

Apple adverts and information leading up to the sale of the iPad3 here never once said that the iPad's 4G was NOT compatible with the two 4G networks here.

There must have been a large number of complaints from purchasers if the ACCC became involved at a legal level.

viviena · 03-29-2012, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geenp

Having said that, I don't think it was wrong of Apple to brand the iPad as 4G, it is a 4G device. Caveat emptor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabredog

Apple adverts and information leading up to the sale of the iPad3 here never once said that the iPad's 4G was NOT compatible with the two 4G networks here.

I'm surprised to see Sabredog's opinion in this thread as the minority one. Maybe we're just a strangely pedantic and unreasonable lot, us Aussies, but I agree with him and the ACCC's decision. Nitpick over wording and overseas standards all you like, Apple's advertising and promotional materials were misleading, particularly for the diverse crowd that iOS devices are often geared to. Or to put it bluntly, the often tech-illiterate crowd. No matter what you define 4G as overseas, say you see the new iPad advertised here in Australia, you live in Australia, you wander down to an Aussie Apple store, and you buy it... it's pretty reasonable to expect your new iPad to be compatible with what we know as our 4G networks here. Not to buy a supposedly 4G-compatible device, just to find out it doesn't work with local 4G networks, but hey, you can always use the 4G on the off-chance you holiday in North America!

Also, if anybody really wants to quibble at semantics over that website statement, it doesn't say 'only USA and Canada', but rather 'also USA and Canada'. Which implies something different.

tubemonkey · 03-29-2012, 04:02 AM

Apple Store Australia lists iPad Wi-Fi + 4G models. How can they advertise a device as 4G when it won't work with Australian 4G networks?

Talk about grossly deceptive advertising!

hpjrt · 03-30-2012, 12:15 PM

This doesn't surprise me as Apple has had misleading advertising for years. Take Siri for example ...

However, now that Steve Jobs is gone, we're going to see a lot more "sloppiness" on the part of Apple. As dreadful a person as Steve Jobs was, he was pretty exacting and generally had a firm hold on marketing of a new product. At least, that was my impression of him ... and I'm anything but a fan of Apple products.

HarryT · 03-30-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpjrt

This doesn't surprise me as Apple has had misleading advertising for years. Take Siri for example ...

What about Siri?

03-28-2012, 11:05 PM	#22
sabredog Geographically Restricted Posts: 2,629 Karma: 14933353 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Device: Sony PRS-T3, Kindle Voyage, iPad Air2, Nexus7v2	Well, the Federal Court has decided Apple misled Australian customers. http://www.news.com.au/technology/ap...-1226313215440 Mediation between the Apple and the ACCC has been set for April with a hearing on liability scheduled for May 2. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/295296...4g-claims.aspx Last edited by sabredog; 03-28-2012 at 11:46 PM. Reason: another link and more info

03-28-2012, 10:34 AM	#19
Sil_liS Wizard Posts: 4,896 Karma: 33602910 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+	All of this is just a result of lack of standardization of wireless networks.

03-28-2012, 01:28 PM	#21
cHex Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 2843950 Join Date: Sep 2011 Device: Kindle Keyboard (K3)	That's what I said. The ad says which networks it works on. I ALSO said the ad does not say it won't work on Australian 4G networks. In other words, everything the ad says is true; it's just that it omits a very important fact--the touted 4G feature distinguishing it from other models does not work in the country in which the device is being marketed.

03-29-2012, 12:18 AM	#24
sabredog Geographically Restricted Posts: 2,629 Karma: 14933353 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Device: Sony PRS-T3, Kindle Voyage, iPad Air2, Nexus7v2	Like I said before, the ACCC would not have pursued Apple if it felt it did not have a case to answer. It plainly does.

03-29-2012, 01:55 AM	#26
sabredog Geographically Restricted Posts: 2,629 Karma: 14933353 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Device: Sony PRS-T3, Kindle Voyage, iPad Air2, Nexus7v2	Apple would full well know that one of their devices is not a compatible 4G device locally in Australia. The ACCC takes a dim view of misleading advertising or advertising where full facts are not made apparent to a customer at time of purchase. Apple adverts and information leading up to the sale of the iPad3 here never once said that the iPad's 4G was NOT compatible with the two 4G networks here. There must have been a large number of complaints from purchasers if the ACCC became involved at a legal level.

03-29-2012, 04:02 AM	#28
tubemonkey monkey on the fringe Posts: 45,746 Karma: 158575914 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Metro Device: Moto E6, Echo Show	Apple Store Australia lists iPad Wi-Fi + 4G models. How can they advertise a device as 4G when it won't work with Australian 4G networks? Talk about grossly deceptive advertising!

03-30-2012, 12:15 PM	#29
hpjrt Connoisseur Posts: 78 Karma: 10862 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: kobo	This doesn't surprise me as Apple has had misleading advertising for years. Take Siri for example ... However, now that Steve Jobs is gone, we're going to see a lot more "sloppiness" on the part of Apple. As dreadful a person as Steve Jobs was, he was pretty exacting and generally had a firm hold on marketing of a new product. At least, that was my impression of him ... and I'm anything but a fan of Apple products.

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