Am I on the right track?

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Funny, I have read more then one post from people using Sony, Kobo, and Nook that they buy from Amazon on a regular basis. Stripping DRM and converting takes little to no time.

That's why I specifically mentioned if DRM stripping isn't involved. Yes, I realize with the tools available, you can buy from practically any ebook store (bar iBooks spoke too soon, apparently, a tool was released just today to remove Fairplay DRM) and very easily strip DRM then convert the de-DRM'ed versions for your device of choice. Personally, while I do purchase ADEPT ePub and all my devices support Adobe DRM, I still run the ebooks through certain tools so I wouldn't have to deal with activation hassles every time I get a new device.

Just saying that by default, there is some form of vendor lock-in. Until laws are revised, DRM stripping is still a gray area which those wanting to follow the straight and narrow might wish to avoid.

[ProfCrash]

Even without stripping there is no vendor lock in to the Kindle. There are plenty of independent bookstores that sell non-DRMed Mobi books for the Kindle. I have seen very few posts were Kindle owners complain that it is hard to find books to buy and read from Amazon or the independents or the free websites.

The notion that the Kindle is restricted is beyond out dated. Ignoring the fact that the Amazon store is the largest ebook store and that you are likely to find the books that you want at a competitive price, not to mention all of the freebies, there are other book sellers that many folks use that sell for the Kindle.

There is this belief that because you can buy best sellers at the Sony, Kobo, and BN store, E-Pub readers have more freedom. The reality is that bestsellers are going to be sold for the same price at Amazon, Sony, IBooks, Kobo, and BN because of Agency Pricing. So there is no advantage to having the freedom to shop at any of the big stores for bestsellers.

Then there is this notion that non-bestsellers are more available for EPub readers because of the number of stores you can buy from. It is rare to find a book available at BN, Sony, Kobo, or IBooks that is not available at Amazon. Just about all of the independent bookstores sell books as Mobi and EPub so there is no difference there.

So this idea that you are locked into Amazon if you buy a Kindle is wrong. The idea that you have more freedom with a EPub reader is true but the number of books available for a Kindle user is the same, if not larger, then the number of books available for an EPub reader due to the size of Amazon's store and the presence of independent bookstores that sell Mobi and EPub formated books.

On top of all of that, non-Agency Priced books tend to be cheaper at Amazon.

If someone prefers EPub for whatever reason, I am fine with that. If you think that the Sony is a better EReader than the Kindle, cool. But the argument that you are locked into Amazon's store is old, out dated, and wrong.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

But the argument that you are locked into Amazon's store is old, out dated, and wrong.

But you are locked to the Amazon store if the titles you like come with DRM and you don't wish to deal with DRM stripping.

In practice, is there a disadvantage to buying a Kindle and only being able to buy from Amazon for DRM'ed books? Not really. As you mentioned, Amazon has the largest selection of books (I haven't actually found any ebook that can be bought for non-Kindle readers that isn't available on Amazon) and agency pricing has certainly gone a long way to eliminating the advantages for other ebook sellers (e.g. FictionWise Micropay, coupon discounts, etc). Amazon also has very competitive prices for non-agency priced ebooks.

If you get a Kindle, you are locked into Amazon for DRM'ed ebooks (if you don't wanna go into DRM stripping). Does it actually matter? No, not really.

Besides, the same is true for other readers (again, assuming you don't wish to strip DRM). Kobo and Sony users can't buy from Amazon, B&N or iBooks and Nook users can't buy from Amazon or iBooks.

Really, the best solution is to get rid of DRM (keeping them only for libraries, etc). The music industry has already gotten rid of DRM for purchased music and only subscription services still have them. I wonder when the book industry will follow?

[ProfCrash]

I am all for getting rid of DRM. I think it would be great. I get rid of DRM on every book that I buy and would be happy to skip that step. You can buy non-DRMed books at Amazon. The rights owner, Publishers or authors, can choose to add DRM or not.

Locked in means you can only buy books from that store. There are many stores that sell books for the Kindle. Hence, you are not locked in. You can chose from the same independent book stores as someone with an EPub reader.

So a Kobo user is better off because it can buy from the same independent books stores as a Kindle user and the Sony bookstore. BN and IBooks cannot be read on a Kobo so they are out. Wow, that is sooooooo much more freedom then a Kindle user. Nevermind that the Sony store is awful and I doubt that too many Kobo readers buy from Sony. And Sony reader can buy from Kobo. I am thrilled that they have so much more freedom then a Kindle user. Wow. I am blown away.

A Nook user can buy from Sony and Kobo. So they have the ability to buy bestsellers for the same price from three bookstores. Which can charge the same price as Amazon. Amazing. And then they can buy other books from an independent bookstore the same way a Kindle user can.

I can see why people believe that they are able to romp freely through oh so many bookstores that a Kindle user cannot if they don't want to strip DRM.

I am sorry, but there is little to no difference. There is an illusion of freedom but that does not mean that it is reality. A Kindle user cannot use Sony, BN, and Kobo. They can use all the same independent bookstores. Not a big deal.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

The rights owner, Publishers or authors, can choose to add DRM or not.

I know this is true for KDP published stuff, but from what Jeffrey Carver posted here on MR, the head of TOR told him Amazon requires DRM for books published by the big pubs. True? I don't know, but I don't know why Tom Doherty would lie to him.

[ProfCrash]

My understanding is that is not the case. There are some authors with enough clout that they have demanded that their Publishers not add DRM to their books and they were represented by the one of the Big 6.

I have not seen the post by the guy from TOR. It is possible that Amazon changed the policy but I cannot see why Amazon would care one way or the other.

[The Terminator]

If you don't care for DRM stripping then get the Kobo Touch.

Both are great devices though.

The Kobo does have more Choices for layout of the page though, and the quilted back is really nice. And if you have a huge library the Kobo has Micro SD card support.

[BrainDead]

My starting point was that I need to read ePubs (from legitimate sources) and these ePubs are not DRM'ed. With a Kindle you cannot read ePubs without first converting them to Amazon's format (is mobi that format?) - a step that while achievable with something like Calibre, should not be neccessary and one that I would prefer to avoid.

Secondly, I would just like to be able to download or copy the ePub to memory without going through hoops having to register the device on the vendors site before anything will work and being restricted to downloading material only from that vendor's site as was the case with one piece of desktop software from a well known eBook vendor. I had (perhaps wrongly) assumed that the desktop software provided an accurate representation of the functionality that I would get on the actual reader but perhaps this is not the case?

I'm curious though. I can understand from a practical perspective why some might want to remove DRM from ePub files, and its interesting to note that tools are available to do this, but is it legal to do so?

Interestingly I have now seen at least a couple of Android Tablet devices that seem to provide eReader functionality and more for a similar price (e.g. Time2). Wifi and 3G and colour screen. If battery power lasts a few days as claimed it makes for an interesting alternative.

[ProfCrash]

BrainDead, I understand that you want an EPub reader. I do not want people to get the wrong idea about the Kindle and one of the most repeated myths is that the Kindle is locked in. If I see that, I point out that it is not and explain why. It normally leads to others who believe said myth trying to explain why I, or who ever it is who points out that the myth is wrong, explaining why it is a myth and not fact. My apologies if this derailed your thread.

The legality of stripping DRM depends on the country and how the law in a given country is interpreted. There are some countries were it is legal to remove DRM, I have no idea which countries fall into this category. I do know that people have posted that it is legal in their country. There are countries where it is illegal, I believe the UK is one. There are countries where it is a grey area, such as the US.

In pretty much every case, stripping DRM is a violation of the Terms of Service for the website you buy the e-book from.

If it is illegal and a violation of the TOS why do people risk it? Well, first someone has to catch you doing it. Which means you have to announce you are doing it and then they have to be able to prove it or they have to some how get onto your computer and prove that you have done it. In most countries that is a bit tricky to do and is it really worth the Police or a Companies time to invest in the detective work to prove anything?

Why do people do it? Because they believe that there is a fair use clause when you by any good, a CD, book, movie that allows them to make personal copies. So you can take a CD and rip MP3's legally. You can buy a paper book and photocopy it or scan it. Why shouldn't you be able to take your e-book and be able to put it on a different device if you want to.

No one I know who advocates removing DRM does so in order to make the book available on Pirate sites. Pirating an e-book is illegal and wrong. Removing DRM so that my books are available to me if I choose to move from a Kindle to a Nook or vice versa is, to me, like taking my paper books, packing them in a box, and moving them to my new apartment or bringing them to the office.

[BrainDead]

Thanks ProfCrash for that explanation and perhaps I am confusing DRM lock-in with eBook store lock-in. Also I hadn't even considered the difference between legality and ToS although often in practice one usually upholds the other. Like the majority you describe, if I did ever purchase files with DRM then I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to make a backup copy or move the file to a new reader or use it on my desktop as well so long as its all for personal use. I fully agree with protecting the rights of publishers and authors but once a purchase is made I see nothing wrong with being able to use the purchased media on any device that I have in my posession so long as it is for personal use.

At present though I have no need to purchase any media. I do however have a considerable amount of DRM free and legitimate educational and research material, now published in ePub format that I would like to conveniently access anywhere. I just want to ensure that any device I choose to purchase will allow me to do so without any undue annoyances or restrictions if I choose not to use it with a specific publishers eBook store.

[jbcohen]

You are looking at the issue wrong while it is true that a Kindle relies on a propretary format called Mobi format that's really not an issue since Calibre is free and can translate anything to that format and back. Also there are many book publishers that make their products available in a variety of different formats including mobi format so the mobi format is not really that much a an issue.

[ProfCrash]

If you have DRM free EPubs than they will work on any of the EPub e-readers. I have no idea if you have to register the e-readers in order to use all of the features. I know you have to register the Kindle to use collections but I do not know if that is true for any of the EPub readers.

I do know that the Nook has its hard drive partitioned so that the vast majority of its space is saved for books from Barnes and Noble. I think that there are ways of altering that but I would suggest checking in the Nook Forums for that info.

Personally, I would find the EReader that works best for you and then worry about format. If you have educational material and some of that is in PDF format, the Sony is probably the best ereader for you. It has the best PDF rep of any of the 6 inch devices, even then it is not great.

If you are in the US, check them all out at a Best Buy or a Target and see which one is most appealing to you. Converstion is easy enough that if that is a Kindle you won't be overly inconvienced. At least that you will know that you bought the device that you feel most comfortable with.