Downloading epub from public library

[Shopaholic]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Two things to make your eReading easier and more satisfying. The first is Calibre, to manage your personal library of books. And the second is to google Apprentice Alf to make sure you can control both the format and the use of your books.

If you borrow them from the library, they are not YOUR books. You are borrowing them. They were not purchased & are not yours to keep on your reader or computer forever.

[elkrott]

I have a program that removes DRM from epub books is this legal?

[magkelly]

Technically, probably not, but absolutely I refuse to buy any book from a book seller that I don't actually own unless I can unlock it. I don't like not actually owning the e-books I buy. According to their TOS Amazon can take every e-book you've purchased right off your reader if they like and there isn't much you can do about it. Cancel your account they have the right to kill all your books.

Unlocking books from the library would be a questionable use of such a program and I am sure that removing DRM from books you've purchased wouldn't be exactly kosher either but I think that could be seen as falling under "fair use" if you then keep your own books to yourself. It's like copying a DVD to your media player or PC, no they don't want you to think it's legal. That's why they put all those lovely FBI warnings on movies these days, but being able to put your own movies on your own device I don't think that's such an unreasonable thing to ask.

I like to keep the e-books I buy, just like I used to keep paper books. Regardless of whether or not I decide to stay with one service or try another at some time I don't want to lose the books I've bought if I ever close my account. Renting books is something you do at the library. Buying them I think should entitle you to keep them forever, paper or e-book, period.

It's the same thing they're trying to do with software. They think we're all willing to move to cloud computing and renting software. It is IMHO, utter BS. If I buy software I'd better be getting the whole program as a download or as a disk to reinstall with or I won't be buying it anytime soon. I'm not willing to stay on the internet to do my office work or to read books. Being online to do some things it's just not that secure.

I recently got a TV card for the computer because our new DVD recorder won't let me rip the video from a home recorded dvd to an avi so I can save my TV shows to DVD just like I used to do with VHS. I called up my cable company to get help in setting it up because I wasn't sure if I could use the cable box with it or not. They practically had a cow over the idea that I was using my PC to record my TV shows so I could edit out the commercials and save 12 episodes to a DVD instead of 3. We're already paying through the nose for cable for those shows, so what is the big deal with changing how I record them? But apparently it is one for them because they nearly threatened to cancel our service over it. I was really tempted to yank the cable completely for a minute there.

I also tried recording shows from my own VHS tapes that I'd taped onto DVD and couldn't do it. The new machine wouldn't let me. It would record directly onto the disc from a new show on TV, but limit me to recording only 3 or 4 hours onto a disk and it would record from the VCR to a tape, but if I tried to then edit the video I'd just recorded from the tape and put it on a disk the machine would balk. Same thing with my old VHS tapes. It would let me record off of video I'd taken with a personal camcorder, like a wedding VHS tape, but it wouldn't let me edit and disk record from VHS tapes I'd made when I was using a VHS VCR to record my shows.

I called up the manufacturer of the DVD-RW/VHS recorder to ask about it and I was told a lot of the new dual recorders have this limitation. I was like you're kidding, right? Nope. We're not supposed to record or own anything media-wise lately apparently. As more and more media things go to dl only that's going to cause problems for all of us. We won't own anything we buy because they won't be making physical media anymore.

All the video stores around here closed one by one. Same with the physical book stores. They're vanishing rapidly along with paper books. Very few remain except for specialty book stores, bookstores that have embraced selling online. Two of the oldest bookstores in my town still exist but they hardly carry anything in paper books. They won't buy them from you either. You can still walk in looking for some old volume you want but even then 9 times out of 10? They're offering to go find it for you online, to order it, because they barely have any stock in the stores old or new anymore. It's like they're just a physical storefront for Amazon and other online book sellers. If it wasn't for the fact that most of them sell coffee and stuff now, count on people being there to socialize in a cafe environment and maybe buy a few old books or a calendar or something, I seriously doubt they'd be able to pay the rent.

My library has cut it's new book paper book budget by like 2/3 this past year. They buy books for kids a lot and a lot of how to books, craft books, things like that, but all the new fiction is rapidly vanishing off the shelves in favor of the new e-books program. They're holding more and more classes, opening their doors to other public events, installing more and more computers, coffees etc, basically becoming media social cafes and community centers just to keep the doors open.

Everywhere I go I see more and more people reading on tablets and now tablet gear like stylus pens, covers et all, they are there at the checkout line, that's how mainstream using a book reader is going. I live in a pretty small city actually so I am amazed at all this happening, but it's true. 10 years from now? All new books will be e-books I think except maybe for a few best sellers at the supermarket checkout. All movies and TV shows etc will be downloaded. Kids will be carrying readers to school instead of texts. Physical media is going the way of the dodo or maybe I should say betamax? But the flipside of that is that the companies that provide the media will make the rules. You will only be able to buy locked stuff that they can take back if and when they so choose and using programs that bypass all that? Big no-no, sigh...

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by Shopaholic

If you borrow them from the library, they are not YOUR books. You are borrowing them. They were not purchased & are not yours to keep on your reader or computer forever.

Correct. But I _did_ pay for them, with my tax dollars. And I have no qualms whatsoever about format shifting them so that I can read them. The goal is reading, not lending or keeping indefinitely.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by elkrott

I have a program that removes DRM from epub books is this legal?

Depends on where you live. In the US, due to the DMCA, it is not legal to remove DRM. However, currently no one has been charged for removing DRM, especially from content they have paid for.

Originally Posted by CRussel

Correct. But I _did_ pay for them, with my tax dollars. And I have no qualms whatsoever about format shifting them so that I can read them. The goal is reading, not lending or keeping indefinitely.

Paying taxes is not the same as ownership. What you're doing is still technically illegal in many areas, for several reasons. Plus, can you prove what portion of your taxes went to pay for that ebook?

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by magkelly

I was pretty ticked when I realized I had to put an Adobe application on my tablet to read library e-books. As it happened it doesn't work with my Cruz so it's either put back on and use the Kindle application which does, and which I really, really didn't like, or forget it. Between that and waiting for a month just to get one single book I wanted I pretty much gave up on the local library's e-book system.

I don't particularly like being hooked up to several book stores via e-reader, being forced to sign in or even to log on or download every book in the reader every time I want to read. I didn't realize that a lot of the readers out there either have you reading the book online or dl it whenever you open it. I also didn't realize that I was going to have to use my account sign in for Amazon all the time just to download and read e-books. Loading my own isn't all that easy in some of the readers. I've got several now on mine that are compatible that are strictly offline readers and that allow me to load my own e-pubs whoever I want to.

Not actually owning the books you buy, books expiring on the HD it's a little weird besides. You can't renew a library e-book, too many people waiting so if you don't get to it fast you're screwed and the lines for the e-books are kind of insane. I can only reserve 3 and I have to wait a month to get those more often than not, eh, what's the point? It's more trouble than it's worth I think. I didn't realize that it was quite this complicated getting the newer e-books from the library. I like my Cruz and I've always been a major supporter of libraries but I can't ever see myself getting too enthusiastic if they don't manage to somehow make it easier to borrow books.

I often wonder about the animosity towards Adobe. They are providing a service to the libraries and publishers. They did develope (or buy) a method to apply DRM but they have no stake in it other than to sell the service and maintain it. Other forms of DRM have been in existence long before Adobe entered the market.

As to reserving/renewing library books one used to have to go to the library, fill in a form which was often filed wrongly, wait for several weeks, get a letter, go and get the book, bring it back to be renewed, and start all over again if it was on hold by someone else. Plus you had to pay $1.00 to reserve it and often didn't get the book. Once I had a book arrive two years after I ordered it and had already read it. Didn't pick it up and was charged $2.00.

Much easier now. For example in my library I can put a book on hold immediately after my first hold is filled, so on the off chance I can't finish it in three weeks the wait won't be as long. Plus no overdue fines and those can add up.

And the biggest benefit for me is that even if I run out of books I want to read at midnight, I can always get something good to read. Maybe not the latest craze in books, maybe not published last week, but I am not really a best seller driven reader. I prefer to make my own decisions rather than to blindly follow the herd.

Helen

[Shopaholic]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Correct. But I _did_ pay for them, with my tax dollars. And I have no qualms whatsoever about format shifting them so that I can read them. The goal is reading, not lending or keeping indefinitely.

Nonsense. You did not pay for them. When you think of everything that you receive via your tax dollars what did you "pay" for the ebook? A fraction of a penny?

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Correct. But I _did_ pay for them, with my tax dollars. And I have no qualms whatsoever about format shifting them so that I can read them. The goal is reading, not lending or keeping indefinitely.

That little wink exonerates you from being serious, right?
Because, my intended reply was; Ok, so what part of I-95 is yours?

[FizzyWater]

I could be being naive, but I read this to mean he removed the DRM so he could borrow ePubs on his Kindle, not so he could keep them beyond the borrowing limit. (And yes, I read the wink as his being facetious).

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Depends on where you live. In the US, due to the DMCA, it is not legal to remove DRM. However, currently no one has been charged for removing DRM, especially from content they have paid for.



Paying taxes is not the same as ownership. What you're doing is still technically illegal in many areas, for several reasons. Plus, can you prove what portion of your taxes went to pay for that ebook?

First, it's not at all clear even in the US that it's illegal to remove DRM for personal use and format shifting, and second, in Canada, it much more clearly is not illegal.

I never said I "owned" my libraries books. Nor do I need to prove what portion paid for anything. That's a specious argument. And frankly, I don't care. I strip DRM from my bought books to allow me to keep archival copies. I strip it from library books to allow me to actually read the books on my eReader of choice. When I'm done reading a library book, I remove it from my Kindle. It's as simple as that.