Stylus pen with Kobo Touch?

[Aydan]

Originally Posted by sgeiger

I'd like to point out to EVERYBODY that the Kobo Touch uses an infra-red-based touch screen -- meaning it works completely differently from the capacitive screens on devices like the iPhone or iPad. The touch function works on PRESSURE and pressure alone. That being said, as long as you apply enough pressure, ANYTHING can be used as a stylus. You do not need to go and buy some special stylus. Try it.

This is completely wrong. What you describe is a resistive touch screen.
Since the KT touch screen is an IR "touch" screen you only have to break the IR barrier in front of the screen. The IR transmitters/receivers are in the frame in front of the actual screen.
Try it. Even if you do not press but just lightly touch the screen it will register a touch.

Regards
Aydan

[voom]

@sgeiger Sure it is different, but are you sure about the pressure? Because sth with a small tip does not work even with quite some pressure; on the other hand I tried a very soft brush that covered a larger area without any significant pressure and that worked very well...

It definitely needs no special pen like capacitive screens; any tip large and soft enough to be recognized by the IR and to not hurt the screen surface should work.

About the eraser/rubber - there are kinds of eraser that smear - usually the red, rough ones - and some that don't, they are usually white and very soft. Obviously one should only use the soft, white kind; also hardly any pressure is needed, just a soft touch.

[sgeiger]

I could be mistaken, though the inherent problem with an "above-the-display" IR emitter system that others are suggesting is that all you need to get some dust or another obstruction at the edges of the screen bevel and the display and all of a sudden it can't "see" anymore. Seeing as, to my knowledge, this isn't the case, I doubt this is how it functions. (also you'd figure the Kobo website would have "make sure the edges of your screen are clean" as a suggestion for people who's screens aren't responding to touch.) Having done some research on modern IR displays, I've read that they work by beaming light through a layer of plastic above the display, and when you apply pressure, the light refracts differently and this is detected by the device.

Also seeing as the kobo vox uses the same IR touch display (again, Kobo flat-out states it's IR on their website), and there is clearly no space at the screen bevel to have incorporated IR LEDs or photoreceptors, I think it's safe to say the IR beaming/reception takes place within the first layer of the panel, not above it.

If you've ever tinkered with a video camera (even a phone's camera), you can see that IR devices, like TV remotes, emit light visible to the camera. Simply put: cameras can see infrared light. If you look through a camera at the edges of the screen of the kobo when it's off VS on, you'll see no difference. If there were hundreds of IR emitters along the edges, I think the edges of the display would appear illuminated when looking through a camera.

[Aydan]

I just did an experiment:
I took a cotton swab and held one end lightly between two fingers.
I placed the other end on the touch screen applying no pressure.
The touch screen reacts. So it's not pressure sensitive.
Also for seeing the IR with a camera: I'd think the IR transmitters are not on all the tiem but only emit a very short pulse every so often to conserve energy. This pulse will not be seen by a camera.
also refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Infrared
and http://www.touchscreensolutions.com....echnology.html

Regards
Aydan

[Xennex1170]

Originally Posted by sgeiger

I could be mistaken, though the inherent problem with an "above-the-display" IR emitter system that others are suggesting is that all you need to get some dust or another obstruction at the edges of the screen bevel and the display and all of a sudden it can't "see" anymore. Seeing as, to my knowledge, this isn't the case, I doubt this is how it functions. (also you'd figure the Kobo website would have "make sure the edges of your screen are clean" as a suggestion for people who's screens aren't responding to touch.) Having done some research on modern IR displays, I've read that they work by beaming light through a layer of plastic above the display, and when you apply pressure, the light refracts differently and this is detected by the device.

Also seeing as the kobo vox uses the same IR touch display (again, Kobo flat-out states it's IR on their website), and there is clearly no space at the screen bevel to have incorporated IR LEDs or photoreceptors, I think it's safe to say the IR beaming/reception takes place within the first layer of the panel, not above it.

If you've ever tinkered with a video camera (even a phone's camera), you can see that IR devices, like TV remotes, emit light visible to the camera. Simply put: cameras can see infrared light. If you look through a camera at the edges of the screen of the kobo when it's off VS on, you'll see no difference. If there were hundreds of IR emitters along the edges, I think the edges of the display would appear illuminated when looking through a camera.

IR tech is neither capacitive nor resistive. There IS a thin bevel along the edges of the screen (at least on the KT, can't say claim anything for a Vox since I don't own one) ABOVE the actual screen. The way it works is that a large enough area of the IR beam has to be broken for it to register. Thus the ineffectiveness of thin stylus' and no particular worries about mild dirtying of the screen since anything relatively small will not affect the responsiveness. However it has been noted that with some types of lighting the KT seems to respond a bit quirky. Perhaps it has a weak IR component that acts as noise. As for cameras seeing IR they have to be in the path of the beam. Given it's not exactly a laser, the bevel may be shaped to focus the IR beam so that it doesn't stray much (maybe less than a mm) above the actual screen and make it difficult for cameras to catch IR light. The receptors on the other hand may be able to receive light at a slightly higher angle to makeup for manufacturing variances. There could also be an intermittent beam rather than a continuous one to save power that could also contribute to making it difficult to detect with a camera.

[filmo]

I just tried page turns with small round paint brush. Brush 1/8" Dia. and 1/2" long black synthetic fiber bristles and cut plastic handle to 2.5 inches long. Both taps and swipes reliably turn pages. Blunt 1/8" Dia plastic handle end of brush also worked. $3 for 30 brushes.

[tsb1]

Originally Posted by Aydan

I just did an experiment:
I took a cotton swab and held one end lightly between two fingers.
I placed the other end on the touch screen applying no pressure.
The touch screen reacts. So it's not pressure sensitive.
Also for seeing the IR with a camera: I'd think the IR transmitters are not on all the tiem but only emit a very short pulse every so often to conserve energy. This pulse will not be seen by a camera.
also refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Infrared
and http://www.touchscreensolutions.com....echnology.html

Regards
Aydan

Definitely not pressure sensitive - I've occasionally managed to change pages without touching the screen at all!

[SameerH]

The Kobo Touch does use IR Touch, which relies on interruption of light between LED transmitters and recievers. The touch can be used with any surface (i.e. with gloves on, which does not work with Capacitive touch) without the need for pressure, as long as the surface area is the minimum diameter.

Soft objects such as fingers widen as you apply more pressure, which may contribute to the impression that increased force against the screen helps the touch performance. It's not the actual force against the screen that's helping (pushing in of the screen), but the flattening of the surface being used to touch.

So, while it's easy to think pressure helps, Styluses - which have small, hard points - will not register on the device, and applying force might result in broken screens so we do not recommend trying.

[Koboyashi]

Originally Posted by SameerH

... So, while it's easy to think pressure helps, Styluses - which have small, hard points - will not register on the device, and applying force might result in broken screens so we do not recommend trying.

This is the main message in this thread. Thank you for clarifying . And, please include this fact in future versions of the manual.

[Mollynix]

makes perfect sense to me..just another toy for my cats to steal anyway!