Barnes & Noble Stores Will Not Stock Books Published By Amazon - Page 2

fjtorres · 02-01-2012, 08:37 AM

This tantrum is just a badly-thought out PR ploy.
Much noise, little impact.

Their "policy" would sound a lot more principled if they *also* refuse to carry them on B&N.com. As is, they are telling the world that the books will actually be worth selling.

They seem to think that Amazon will be oh-so-hurt by lost sales at *their* storefronts they will cave in and change their entire business model to cater to them.
Uhm, not going to happen.
More, even if they *did*, it would do Nook no good. The Kindle version would still be cheaper. After all, Amazon publishing wouldn't offer them up under Agency pricing. They'd just set list price at $30, wholesale them for $15 to B&N and Kindle, and sell them for $10 on Kindle.

Obviously, they don't understand what Amazon Publishing is about.
But then, neither do Amazon's critics from the old-school publishing houses.

Amazon Publishing is built off the premise that ebooks come first: that ebooks are the core market for certain types of books, and that print editions for those books will be supplementary and, yes, *secondary* to that core market.

In that model, print editions will be for libraries, luddites, and casual buyers. And the casual buyers will be the bulk of the print sales. And, of course, B&N has no lock on casual buyers, neither does WalMart or CVS or Walgreens of any of the supermarket chains. Casual buyers will buy the book wherever they can get it if the buzz is enough to get them to take note of it in the first place.
Other buyers? Most of those have long since moved their buying online (which is why B&N.com *will* be selling Amazon books) and to ebooks (which is why B&N is throwing this tantrum).

Now, will denying their storefronts to Amazon books scare off *some* authors? Maybe.
But anybody signing with an Amazon Imprint *already* knows some spiteful retailers won't carry the book. That is why Amazon is paying the higher advances and royalties; *they* are the ones carrying the risk of lost sales, not the authors. Amazon is betting that, over the long haul, ebook-first publishing will dominate the traditional model and authors signing with them should be doing so with the understanding that the bulk of their sales will come from the pool of 20-30 million Kindle reader owners and the unspecified amount of Kindle app users on other devices.

As so often happens (KSO, anybody?), critics are reading the Amazon play exactly backwards: Amazon publishing isn't about taking over the print book business. It is about *servicing* the Kindle installed base and making them stay in the Kindle garden. It is about building the *next* publishing industry a little bit sooner.

The print editions? A side bet, really. In the tech business it would be called legacy customer support. Amazon publishing does print editions *in case* there is some money there and because no smart business lets customers walk away and take their money elsewhere. (Which is what B&N is doing. If an Amazon title becomes a monster and Walmart has a defacto print exclusive on it...)

I'm think B&N over-values their stores and they have drawn a line in the sand that might just cost them dearly if one of the Amazon titles, now or down the road, actually becomes popular. If the next HUNGER GAMES or TWILIGHT comes from Amazon, B&N is really going to be hurting from this unnecessary tantrum.

frahse · 02-01-2012, 08:39 AM

I am not much for exclusivity.

That said, the two halves of the market are trying to exclude each other in one way or another.

Each has strengths.

It would be nice if at least one of the two sides had decided to travel the high road, but that is not the current plan.

I fear that there is little choice for an author but to pick the side that seems to be the most accommodating fit, and hope for the best.

MrsJoseph · 02-01-2012, 10:06 AM

I can understand the annoyance of the customer - but Amazon IS trying to kill off B&N. They have to do something - especially since Amazon is drawing the hard line in the sand.

Exclusive contracts are bad business, IMHO.

anamardoll · 02-01-2012, 10:26 AM

I am very much against the Amazon Publishing branch, so take this post with bias, but I agree with B&N's decision.

The Amazon Publishing agreement is essentially an exclusivity agreement as far as e-Books go: only Amazon can publish the e-Book. So B&N is basically taking the lead in saying that the agreement is also an exclusivity agreement as far as B&M stores go: Amazon Publishing will be limited to Amazon's B&M outlets. (Which essentially don't exist.)

Since the real reason for going Amazon Publishing was largely for paper copies (because if you just want to publish your e-Book you can do that on your own at Amazon and other places), B&N's decision sort of nips that in the bud.

To be honest, I hope other companies follow suit, as I am VERY nervous about Amazon using their Publishing arm to create exclusivity for their Selling arm, and gods know we don't trust bust in this country anymore because that would make our Business Overlords have Frowny Faces.

Sil_liS · 02-01-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

If the next HUNGER GAMES or TWILIGHT comes from Amazon, B&N is really going to be hurting from this unnecessary tantrum.

If the next HUNGER GAMES or TWILIGHT comes from Amazon, B&N is going to be hurting anyway because everybody will know that the book is published by Amazon and that will be the first place where they would look.

anamardoll · 02-01-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

If the next HUNGER GAMES or TWILIGHT comes from Amazon, B&N is going to be hurting anyway because everybody will know that the book is published by Amazon and that will be the first place where they would look.

I would go one step further and suggest that Hunger Games and Twilight took off IN PART because they were readily available at B&M stores to begin with.

It may not be possible for the next Hunger Games or Twilight to come out of Amazon Publishing while they keep saying "you have to go to Amazon to get X format" and B&N is countering "then you also have to go online to get Y format".

RainingLemur · 02-01-2012, 10:35 AM

This doesn't come as much of a surprise. It sucks, but it's not something I would be too inconvenienced by.

Sil_liS · 02-01-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

It may not be possible for the next Hunger Games or Twilight to come out of Amazon Publishing while they keep saying "you have to go to Amazon to get X format" and B&N is countering "then you also have to go online to get Y format".

I thought that the exclusives come digitally only as kindle version.

tubemonkey · 02-01-2012, 10:40 AM

Authors share equal blame for signing these contracts.

MrsJoseph · 02-01-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I thought that the exclusives come digitally only as kindle version.

Which is true - so if author A creates the next Twilight through Amazon Publishing only Amazon will sell the ebook.

Amazon does not have B&M stores - so the book would be limited to purchase via Amazon (to be shipped).

The typical fantasy/romance browser who does NOT own a kindle will never run across this book without fantastic marketing.

anamardoll · 02-01-2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

It may not be possible for the next Hunger Games or Twilight to come out of Amazon Publishing while they keep saying "you have to go to Amazon to get X format" and B&N is countering "then you also have to go online to get Y format".

For those who weren't clear, X in above is "electronic" and Y in above is "paper".

howyoudoin · 02-01-2012, 10:56 AM

How is Amazon's exclusivity contract different from existing traditional exclusivity contracts in principle?

anamardoll · 02-01-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

How is Amazon's exclusivity contract different from existing traditional exclusivity contracts in principle?

The difference lies in that when Harlequin publishes a Deathlands book, the e-book version is available on both Amazon Kindle and B&N Nook and e-Harlequin. You can buy the book through the publisher, but you don't have to.

Amazon is trying to push Kindle sales by buying up authors and not sharing the electronic versions with other sellers. This is not healthy for the consumer.

howyoudoin · 02-01-2012, 11:03 AM

Ah, k. Thanks.

MrsJoseph · 02-01-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

The difference lies in that when Harlequin publishes a Deathlands book, the e-book version is available on both Amazon Kindle and B&N Nook and e-Harlequin. You can buy the book through the publisher, but you don't have to.

Amazon is trying to push Kindle sales by buying up authors and not sharing the electronic versions with other sellers. This is not healthy for the consumer.

Also add:

Kobo
Sony
AllRomanceEbooks
...and several others who's names I forget

02-01-2012, 08:37 AM	#16
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	This tantrum is just a badly-thought out PR ploy. Much noise, little impact. Their "policy" would sound a lot more principled if they also refuse to carry them on B&N.com. As is, they are telling the world that the books will actually be worth selling. They seem to think that Amazon will be oh-so-hurt by lost sales at their storefronts they will cave in and change their entire business model to cater to them. Uhm, not going to happen. More, even if they did, it would do Nook no good. The Kindle version would still be cheaper. After all, Amazon publishing wouldn't offer them up under Agency pricing. They'd just set list price at $30, wholesale them for $15 to B&N and Kindle, and sell them for $10 on Kindle. Obviously, they don't understand what Amazon Publishing is about. But then, neither do Amazon's critics from the old-school publishing houses. Amazon Publishing is built off the premise that ebooks come first: that ebooks are the core market for certain types of books, and that print editions for those books will be supplementary and, yes, secondary to that core market. In that model, print editions will be for libraries, luddites, and casual buyers. And the casual buyers will be the bulk of the print sales. And, of course, B&N has no lock on casual buyers, neither does WalMart or CVS or Walgreens of any of the supermarket chains. Casual buyers will buy the book wherever they can get it if the buzz is enough to get them to take note of it in the first place. Other buyers? Most of those have long since moved their buying online (which is why B&N.com will be selling Amazon books) and to ebooks (which is why B&N is throwing this tantrum). Now, will denying their storefronts to Amazon books scare off some authors? Maybe. But anybody signing with an Amazon Imprint already knows some spiteful retailers won't carry the book. That is why Amazon is paying the higher advances and royalties; they are the ones carrying the risk of lost sales, not the authors. Amazon is betting that, over the long haul, ebook-first publishing will dominate the traditional model and authors signing with them should be doing so with the understanding that the bulk of their sales will come from the pool of 20-30 million Kindle reader owners and the unspecified amount of Kindle app users on other devices. As so often happens (KSO, anybody?), critics are reading the Amazon play exactly backwards: Amazon publishing isn't about taking over the print book business. It is about servicing the Kindle installed base and making them stay in the Kindle garden. It is about building the next publishing industry a little bit sooner. The print editions? A side bet, really. In the tech business it would be called legacy customer support. Amazon publishing does print editions in case there is some money there and because no smart business lets customers walk away and take their money elsewhere. (Which is what B&N is doing. If an Amazon title becomes a monster and Walmart has a defacto print exclusive on it...) I'm think B&N over-values their stores and they have drawn a line in the sand that might just cost them dearly if one of the Amazon titles, now or down the road, actually becomes popular. If the next HUNGER GAMES or TWILIGHT comes from Amazon, B&N is really going to be hurting from this unnecessary tantrum. Last edited by fjtorres; 02-01-2012 at 08:46 AM.

02-01-2012, 10:06 AM	#18
MrsJoseph Loves Ellipsis... Posts: 1,554 Karma: 7899232 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Washington, DC Device: Kobo Wifi (broken), nook STR (returned), Kobo Touch, Sony T1	I can understand the annoyance of the customer - but Amazon IS trying to kill off B&N. They have to do something - especially since Amazon is drawing the hard line in the sand. Exclusive contracts are bad business, IMHO. Last edited by MrsJoseph; 02-01-2012 at 10:46 AM. Reason: html tags incorrect

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02-01-2012, 08:39 AM	#17
frahse occasional author Posts: 2,315 Karma: 2064403292 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Wandering God's glorious hills, valleys and plains. Device: A Franklin BI (before Internet) was the first. I still have it.	I am not much for exclusivity. That said, the two halves of the market are trying to exclude each other in one way or another. Each has strengths. It would be nice if at least one of the two sides had decided to travel the high road, but that is not the current plan. I fear that there is little choice for an author but to pick the side that seems to be the most accommodating fit, and hope for the best.

02-01-2012, 10:26 AM	#19
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	I am very much against the Amazon Publishing branch, so take this post with bias, but I agree with B&N's decision. The Amazon Publishing agreement is essentially an exclusivity agreement as far as e-Books go: only Amazon can publish the e-Book. So B&N is basically taking the lead in saying that the agreement is also an exclusivity agreement as far as B&M stores go: Amazon Publishing will be limited to Amazon's B&M outlets. (Which essentially don't exist.) Since the real reason for going Amazon Publishing was largely for paper copies (because if you just want to publish your e-Book you can do that on your own at Amazon and other places), B&N's decision sort of nips that in the bud. To be honest, I hope other companies follow suit, as I am VERY nervous about Amazon using their Publishing arm to create exclusivity for their Selling arm, and gods know we don't trust bust in this country anymore because that would make our Business Overlords have Frowny Faces.

02-01-2012, 10:35 AM	#22
RainingLemur Spork Connoisseur Posts: 2,355 Karma: 16780603 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Nook Color	This doesn't come as much of a surprise. It sucks, but it's not something I would be too inconvenienced by.

02-01-2012, 10:40 AM	#24
tubemonkey monkey on the fringe Posts: 45,762 Karma: 158733736 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Metro Device: Moto E6, Echo Show	Authors share equal blame for signing these contracts.

02-01-2012, 10:56 AM	#27
howyoudoin how YOU doin? Posts: 1,100 Karma: 7371047 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Device: Kindle Keyboard, iPad Pro 10.5”, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Libra 2	How is Amazon's exclusivity contract different from existing traditional exclusivity contracts in principle?

02-01-2012, 11:03 AM	#29
howyoudoin how YOU doin? Posts: 1,100 Karma: 7371047 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Device: Kindle Keyboard, iPad Pro 10.5”, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Libra 2	Ah, k. Thanks.

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