Amazon MobiPocket files and the Iliad - Page 2

JSWolf · 11-25-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bojan

OK, maybe wallcraft overlooked the 6 (Kindle!) devices thing, but I agree with the point that he was making: it is very unlikely that you will be able to read any of your purchased DRM-ed AZW books on any other device, other then Kindle. Also, you can read MOBI books on any device that supports MOBI format, but it looks like Kindle will not be one of them.

Otherwise, I really like the Kindle, but as wallcraft pointed out, people are just not aware of the book vendor lock-in that they are facing for the coming years.

All DRM format ebooks are going to lock you in. Doesn't matter the format. If it has DRM, you are locked in.

wallcraft · 11-25-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

AZW licensing is done similar to Mobi licensing and multiple devices are allowed, up to 6 which is generally 2 more that mobi allows. Both are locked to devices but there can be a list of acceptable devices in both formats.

Can the same secure AZW file be read on six Kindles? I was aware that multiple Kindles could share an account, but not that a secure AZW file could contain 6 PIDs. Note that if this is the case, then the format is not identical to MOBI.

No matter how it is implemented (multiple files, or multiple PIDs per file), I don't agree that allowing any device you want so long as it is a Kindle is the same as allowing multiple devices of many different types. Even the Sony allows reading its secure files on a Windows PC.

DaleDe · 11-25-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Can the same secure AZW file be read on six Kindles? I was aware that multiple Kindles could share an account, but not that a secure AZW file could contain 6 PIDs. Note that if this is the case, then the format is not identical to MOBI.

No matter how it is implemented (multiple files, or multiple PIDs per file), I don't agree that allowing any device you want so long as it is a Kindle is the same as allowing multiple devices of many different types. Even the Sony allows reading its secure files on a Windows PC.

I believe the device lock is added when it is downloaded but all six might be listed in the file. I am not sure which it is. You are correct that Mobi can run of multiple types of devices which is an advantage for Mobi but several have claimed that AZW is only 1 device per purchase and this is not correct and makes a false claim. There are a lot of false claims being made in the last few days about Kindle. I have seen so many I am becoming a bit gun shy.

Dale

pdam · 11-26-2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

So in the short term, I expect the range of MOBI e-books to increase and for the price of all e-books to go down. MOBI will probably be on average a bit more than AZW, but they are less restricted.

Does this mean that you are aware that Amazon are not signing exclusive distribution deals for MOBI e-books?
If we see the same titles popping up with other vendors & channels then great ... but the fact that there is no sign of this large increase in other channels ... and the lack of attractiveness for publishers to pursue further channels at this point leaves me remaining pessimistic as to getting much wider choice on my Iliad in the short term from the MobiPocket format (other than through organic growth of existing channels).

wallcraft · 11-26-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdam

Does this mean that you are aware that Amazon are not signing exclusive distribution deals for MOBI e-books?

See da_jane's post in The "Kindle" iPod of reading - Newsweek scoops. The original Dear Author blog is No Kindle Exclusivity ....

It does appear to be the case that many of the "new" e-books are in technical fields, and so they may not get wider distribution. Wiley explicitly said that some of their e-books were exclusive to the Kindle.

pdam · 11-27-2007, 06:15 AM

Thanks for the pointers wallcraft - I feel a little more optimistic about the future possibilities for MobiPocket on the Iliad!

Aenea · 11-30-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

So much misinformation. Learn something before you post.

Huh, same goes for you then! AZW==Mobipocket. There's only room for 4 PID's in this file format. The mobi format allows for a couple of different DRM schemes. There can be a time limit for example and it's possible to add a 'custom' DRM step which can be made different on every device (for example on every Kindle) or on every device type (eg. same on all Kindles, but different between a Kindle and an iLiad). The (java) reader on the iLiad does provide code which supports this extra step, but misses the extra info needed to do so.

So, basically, if I have a Kindle AND an iLiad and I get the extra bit of info needed from the Kindle and I patch the iLiad reader code, the iLiad is capable of displaying the AZW files just fine.

Better yet, it's actually possible to remove or add the Kindle specific step...

DaleDe · 11-30-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aenea

So, basically, if I have a Kindle AND an iLiad and I get the extra bit of info needed from the Kindle and I patch the iLiad reader code, the iLiad is capable of displaying the AZW files just fine.

Better yet, it's actually possible to remove or add the Kindle specific step...

Very interesting. I take it this is from actual experience?

Dale

NatCh · 11-30-2007, 01:29 PM

Aenea has demonstrated an ... intimate knowledge of the mobi format's inner workings, if she says it's so, that's good enough for me.

Aenea · 11-30-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Very interesting. I take it this is from actual experience?

Yep, I received an AZW file from someone and I analysed it using my previously written decrypt utility (in debug mode). It didn't take long to find where the differences are located...

nekokami · 11-30-2007, 02:50 PM

Hm... does that mean you'd be able to write a utility to turn a Kindle file into an ordinary Mobi file? (with or without the DRM?)

Aenea · 11-30-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

Hm... does that mean you'd be able to write a utility to turn a Kindle file into an ordinary Mobi file? (with or without the DRM?)

Without DRM: Yes. But is as (il)legal as my previous decrypt utility...

With DRM: Yes. Pretty damn easy actually, you do still need the right PID though, but since a Mobi/AZW file can have up to 4 working PID's, the PID of another device can be added. What I do wonder though, is this as illegal as a decrypt utility? (a program which removes the Kindle specific check and adding a PID)

NatCh · 11-30-2007, 03:02 PM

Probably depends on the jurisdiction. And something tells me that Mobi/Amazon would take just as a dim view of it regardless of jurisdiction.

wallcraft · 11-30-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aenea

With DRM: Yes. Pretty damn easy actually, you do still need the right PID though, but since a Mobi/AZW file can have up to 4 working PID's, the PID of another device can be added. What I do wonder though, is this as illegal as a decrypt utility? (a program which removes the Kindle specific check and adding a PID)

Adding a PID must be "DRM circumvention", and hence presumably illegal under DMCA in the US.

However, how about taking a DRMed MOBI file that has been authorized for the Kindle (i.e. includes the Kindle's PID) and adding the Kindle marker to make it a DRMed AZW file. Is this possible? Does it require MobiPocket copyrighted code? I don't think this should be illegal in the US under the DMCA, because you have permission of the copyright holder to run on the Kindle - you just don't have permission from Amazon. However, laws don't have to make sense - so perhaps even this is proscribed by the DMCA.

NatCh · 11-30-2007, 03:39 PM

From what I understand of the DMCA, this would probably be proscribed by it simply because it does make sense.

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11-27-2007, 06:15 AM	#21
pdam Groupie Posts: 199 Karma: 100 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: iLiad, iPaq, Psion5&7, Blackberry	Thanks for the pointers wallcraft - I feel a little more optimistic about the future possibilities for MobiPocket on the Iliad!

11-30-2007, 01:29 PM	#24
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Aenea has demonstrated an ... intimate knowledge of the mobi format's inner workings, if she says it's so, that's good enough for me.

11-30-2007, 02:50 PM	#26
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Hm... does that mean you'd be able to write a utility to turn a Kindle file into an ordinary Mobi file? (with or without the DRM?)

11-30-2007, 03:02 PM	#28
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Probably depends on the jurisdiction. And something tells me that Mobi/Amazon would take just as a dim view of it regardless of jurisdiction.

11-30-2007, 03:39 PM	#30
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	From what I understand of the DMCA, this would probably be proscribed by it simply because it does make sense.

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