WebOs will be open source, and of course, alive and supported by HP

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by jocampo

About releasing a 10" tablet with a 200 dollar price, that's just not possible, period. The cost of the TouchPad is about 300 dollars. Nobody sell products to lose money and unless Amazon, HP was not looking for long term profit via software or retail sales, besides, is a risky move. Selling hardware at loss, expecting to recover later via software, is a risky move no matter what, and the more you sell, the more you need to make later to recover.

Does HP only make one laptop model? A tablet doesn't have to be only a $500 10" device. What's wrong with producing a line of tablets (5", 7", 8.9", 10") in varying price ranges, with varying features? They do it with computers and a tablet is nothing more than a computer without a keyboard. It's not mystical. It's a piece of hardware.

The TouchPad failed because it was overpriced and didn't have an app store.

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I fail to understand why HP felt the need to have its own mobile OS. They don't have their own desktop OS for the computers they sell; and look how successful they are.

Just for fun, what would you suggest they use instead, Android? Do we really need more one horse races? If the Kindle hadn't taken off, would you ask why they needed to roll their own?

Competition is vital in this area - at the moment iOS is... a non starter for other companies. Android as much as some people like it, it's really not that amazing. I rather like WP7 and Meego, but I guess most are blinded by colourful logos and media hurf blurf.

You also have to understand that HP is not exactly 'doing well' with the whole desktop business, in fact it's doing rather badly and has struggled for a number of years with it, every few months they talk of selling/dropping it internally; "and look how successful they are" indeed.

On the other hand their HP-UX has managed to lock in a lot of clients for the long haul, easy money from all that expensive legacy stuff. Servers too, businesses arnt going to opt for the cheap stuff, and they're going to want some support to go with that... Hmmm! Playbook/QNX/BBOS was the competition, not Android. There's a lot more money to made by not bothering with consumers (i.e look at the prices) but rather just aiming at the business market and making sure you're there for the long haul with services, software and hardware lock-in.

Something people don't quite grasp is that there's no money in the tablet hardware business, you're making 10% max per unit, unless you can command the 200%'s and such of crApple, but anyone that tries to do this in consumer space, fails. Tablets are a software game for the home consumer market, if you cant get in there, you're going to be making nearly nothing.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by jocampo

This is a very, very, complex topic.

But in a nutshell. The idea was launching a nice hardware with a nice Os, and allow the market to growth. It is virtually impossible to launch a product with a complete market at the same time of the release; it takes months, even a year. Amazon content is just ok, and it was release several months ago.

If you're going to succeed with a new OS, you need content; and that means getting big names onboard from the get go. Where's Netflix? Hulu? That's the only way you'll attract developers.

Amazon will succeed as a tablet maker. HP failed miserably.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Something people don't quite grasp is that there's no money in the tablet hardware business, you're making 10% max per unit, unless you can command the 200%'s and such of crApple, but anyone that tries to do this in consumer space, fails. Tablets are a software game for the home consumer market, if you cant get in there, you're going to be making nearly nothing.

Tablets are computers without keyboards. Companies fail because they enter the market at $499 or a bit below. That's too much money and very few people will pay it. They also fail because they only make one model.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

If you're going to succeed with a new OS, you need content; and that means getting big names onboard from the get go. Where's Netflix? Hulu? That's the only way you'll attract developers.

Amazon will succeed as a tablet maker. HP failed miserably.

Maybe I did not explain myself correctly.

For the Touchpad, in order to succeed, HP had to invest many, many millions of dollars, in order to improve market or even releasing a second tablet. And such move was not going to ensure profitability short term anyway.

Hopefully Amazon will be good, but neither you or myself, know that at this moment. They took a high risk. Let's see if the sales backed that up.

By the way, Touchpad included Amazon's Kindle on its release. There were other companies that included some apps as well.

They released the product too early, with the bad results we all know. However, it is kind of funny that even with all those flaws, people bought Touchpads like hot cakes. So it was not only apps, after all.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Tablets are computers without keyboards.

Yes and no.

They have some basic and common components, including CPU, but tablets have touchscreen and different Os. They price and market are totally different.

You can find an "ok" laptop for about 300 bucks, new, with AMD processor. You won't find an "ok" 10" capacitive screen tablet for that price, only junks.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Maybe I did not explain myself correctly.

For the Touchpad, in order to succeed, HP had to invest many, many millions of dollars, in order to improve market or even releasing a second tablet. And such move was not going to ensure profitability short term anyway.

Hopefully Amazon will be good, but neither you or myself, know that at this moment. They took a high risk. Let's see if the sales backed that up.

By the way, Touchpad included Amazon's Kindle on its release. There were other companies that included some apps as well.

They released the product too early, with the bad results we all know. However, it is kind of funny that even with all those flaws, people bought Touchpads like hot cakes. So it was not only apps, after all.

I understood what you said and I disagree.

The Kindle app is still in beta. When do you think Amazon will get around to finishing it?

It sold like hotcakes because it was $99. That was the only reason I bought one. My primary tablet is a 5" Samsung Galaxy Player. Even though it cost twice as much, it's a better deal because it has more features and better content.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Yes and no.

They have some basic and common components, including CPU, but tablets have touchscreen and different Os. They price and market are totally different.

You can find an "ok" laptop for about 300 bucks, new, with AMD processor. You won't find an "ok" 10" capacitive screen tablet for that price, only junks.

In my opinion, tablets are being marketed wrong; and we'll never see eye-to-eye on this.

OK is a state of mind. A $250~$300 laptop is all the laptop I need and I wouldn't find it lacking in the least.

The problem with the tablet market is this one size fits all mentality that these companies have. Tablets need to come in varying sizes with varying features and varying prices.

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Yes and no.

They have some basic and common components, including CPU, but tablets have touchscreen and different Os. They price and market are totally different.

You can find an "ok" laptop for about 300 bucks, new, with AMD processor. You won't find an "ok" 10" capacitive screen tablet for that price, only junks.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...rivals_10Dec11

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/q...a/14077_na.pdf

Perhaps not "junks"?


Luck;
Ken

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Tablets are computers without keyboards. Companies fail because they enter the market at $499 or a bit below. That's too much money and very few people will pay it. They also fail because they only make one model.

You're failing to understand, there's no money in the hardware side of things, if they charge a premium it's a dead product (if they cant crack the business/specialized market), if they charge the same as the next guy - they make next to nothing (and never get taken seriously by business). Do you think companies take risk with extra product lines for fun? No, they expect to be able to get a good return. If they don't know the water very well, they release a single line, maybe 3 models with different memory. Once they figure out that there's no money there, they leave the game and go back to producing goods with far more reasonable margins, where they can make money outside of the initial consumer sale.

Same thing with readers, look at the smaller players, none of them can compete with the bulk hardware pricing that Amazon/B&N/Sony can get, specially since they can risk a few % on getting book sales, pure hardware guys can't unless they go into the specialized market (and stand a good risk of dying there too).

[miguel1626]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Tablets are computers without keyboards. Companies fail because they enter the market at $499 or a bit below. That's too much money and very few people will pay it. They also fail because they only make one model.

Computer parts are commoditized nowadays. The marginal cost of launching another product approaches zero.

Not so with tablets. Yes, there're components that can be called off-the-shelf, but a lot of them are expensive, have low yields (further increasing scarcity) and few suppliers. Hence, most manufactures cannot afford to diversify their product line at this point in time.

This will probably change in the future, but for now there're real constraints out there.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...rivals_10Dec11

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/q...a/14077_na.pdf

Perhaps not "junks"?


Luck;
Ken

Talking about other 10" tablets out there from strange brands. The Thouchpad, while not extremely fast or thin, is not junk by any means.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

You're failing to understand, there's no money in the hardware side of things, if they charge a premium it's a dead product (if they cant crack the business/specialized market), if they charge the same as the next guy - they make next to nothing (and never get taken seriously by business). Do you think companies take risk with extra product lines for fun? No, they expect to be able to get a good return. If they don't know the water very well, they release a single line, maybe 3 models with different memory. Once they figure out that there's no money there, they leave the game and go back to producing goods with far more reasonable margins, where they can make money outside of the initial consumer sale.

Same thing with readers, look at the smaller players, none of them can compete with the bulk hardware pricing that Amazon/B&N/Sony can get, specially since they can risk a few % on getting book sales, pure hardware guys can't unless they go into the specialized market (and stand a good risk of dying there too).

You hit the nail on the head my friend. That's basically what it is.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

You're failing to understand, there's no money in the hardware side of things, if they charge a premium it's a dead product (if they cant crack the business/specialized market), if they charge the same as the next guy - they make next to nothing (and never get taken seriously by business).

There's a middle ground. Deliver a product with good features and access to content, and profit will follow if priced reasonably.

[mersfire]

I think this move is very strategic on HP's part. The company has historically been a hardware company and owning their own OS seemed like a big undertaking.

I've been a fan of WebOS since the original Palm Pre on Sprint and I think it trumps Android and also iOS (gasp!). I thought with HP hardware and Palm software, good things would come from this, but apparently ex-CEO Leo had other plans.

Android's adoption rate had been so rapid partly because it is open source and that hardware manufacturers do not need to pay royalty for using it (except for those that Microsoft are extorting, I mean have licensing agreements with).

Now that WebOS will become open source, I am hoping that more manufacturers will consider utilizing this platform (maybe in China or India). The homebrew community for WebOS is very strong and professional, so side loading apps have never been an issue. This means that it should be quite easy for third parties to create apps for their devices. And HP still seems interested in keeping their store alive as well. Many developers I know have made apps for WebOS because it's less crowded than the other platforms and now that there are apparently millions of devices deployed, perhaps it will attract more developers.

By open sourcing WebOS, HP can observe to see whether WebOS will survive and even gain in popularity. If yes, they can jump back in and make new hardware for it. If not, then at least the platform will hopefully live on at least in the enthusiast or even academic circles.