Penguin seems to have declared war on elibraries - at least for kindles

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Seems to me that Penguin's action is a reaction to Amazon's unilateral decision to permit Prime members to borrow books. I say this because Penguin didn't remove the ePub versions from Overdrive. Amazon likes to push the limits. Unfortunately, when it goes too far from the perspective of its suppliers, the reaction tends to hurt the consumer more than Amazon.

One other thing to consider. Amazon is establishing itself as a direct competitor to Penguin. In the past, the only issue was Amazon's price-setting policies. Now that Amazon has aggressively entered the publishing business and the competition to sign authors as a publisher, it is an even greater threat to Penguin and the other publishers. I expect that has also played into Penguin's decision. After all, how much should it want to support what is becoming a direct competitor?

They can't remove the epub or pdf because the libraries actually purchase that copy. They could be sued but the Kindles wasn't apart of the original licenses. They can suspend all new books that aren't released yet that the libraries hasn't purchased.

Just like Harper Collins couldn't impose the new viewing limit on titles already purchased.

So the current own penguin titles are safe and not going anywhere but that means no new copies.

[BeccaPrice]

from other things I'm reading, like on Teleread, it sounds like one of the issues may be (and I stress *may*) that some libraries like the Free Library of Philadelphia are selling out-of-area memberships. I read somewhere that in England the publishers tried to make it that libraries couldn't issue out-of-area memberships unless the person showed up in person to buy the library card. It has to do with geographical restrictions, or something like that.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

from other things I'm reading, like on Teleread, it sounds like one of the issues may be (and I stress *may*) that some libraries like the Free Library of Philadelphia are selling out-of-area memberships. I read somewhere that in England the publishers tried to make it that libraries couldn't issue out-of-area memberships unless the person showed up in person to buy the library card. It has to do with geographical restrictions, or something like that.

That shouldn't apply to the U.S they are saying it's because of Piracy I think it's all about the money. The holidays are coming up and nearly everyone's gonna get a ereader and they don't want them using the library because it's a lost sell to them. Look at the timing. Right before Christmas.

[DustyDisks]

Originally Posted by Blossom

That shouldn't apply to the U.S they are saying it's because of Piracy I think it's all about the money. The holidays are coming up and nearly everyone's gonna get a ereader and they don't want them using the library because it's a lost sell to them. Look at the timing. Right before Christmas.

The timeing does have an odor about it? And by the wording of their statement, it is all about the money. Security = DRM ! Security concerns = People are cracking it and sharing books = Loss of profits. They see themselves going out of business if one eBook can multiply a zillion times over the net. So it seems like they are pulling out at least until stronger DRM can be put into place >?

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by DustyDisks

The timeing does have an odor about it? And by the wording of their statement, it is all about the money. Security = DRM ! Security concerns = People are cracking it and sharing books = Loss of profits. They see themselves going out of business if one eBook can multiply a zillion times over the net. So it seems like they are pulling out at least until stronger DRM can be put into place >?

Which is silly if it was true. It's about the people who are about to switch from paperback to ebooks in the next month and the library service they will use. If it was about DRM issues they would remove all ebooks from all stores not just the library. Penguin give me a break!

[DustyDisks]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Which is silly if it was true. It's about the people who are about to switch from paperback to ebooks in the next month and the library service they will use. If it was about DRM issues they would remove all ebooks from all stores not just the library. Penguin give me a break!

Well, one thing is for sure the eBook is taking off like a rocket , with the general public, and is the wave of the future. Of that there can be no doubt, there will always be a market for the hard copy book, methinks that will never die.

Some of the brick and mortar businesses still have some dinosaurs running things, but I methinks one of the biggest problems they have is developing a business model, that supports hard books and the eBook. The zillion pound mouse in the room is they see unauthorized copy's of their works on the net, in the thousands that they hold the rights to. And to them that is a loss of revenue. And reading their statement it seems to me, that it is just not library books but all eBooks.

They can not stop what is already out in the public, but they can sure stop any new works in the eBook format.

IMHO

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by DustyDisks

Well, one thing is for sure the eBook is taking off like a rocket , with the general public, and is the wave of the future. Of that there can be no doubt, there will always be a market for the hard copy book, methinks that will never die.

Some of the brick and mortar businesses still have some dinosaurs running things, but I methinks one of the biggest problems they have is developing a business model, that supports hard books and the eBook. The zillion pound mouse in the room is they see unauthorized copy's of their works on the net, in the thousands that they hold the rights to. And to them that is a loss of revenue. And reading their statement it seems to me, that it is just not library books but all eBooks.

They can not stop what is already out in the public, but they can sure stop any new works in the eBook format.

IMHO

Okay so they are removing all new ebooks not just library ones?

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by DustyDisks

Well, one thing is for sure the eBook is taking off like a rocket , with the general public, and is the wave of the future. Of that there can be no doubt, there will always be a market for the hard copy book, methinks that will never die.

Some of the brick and mortar businesses still have some dinosaurs running things, but I methinks one of the biggest problems they have is developing a business model, that supports hard books and the eBook. The zillion pound mouse in the room is they see unauthorized copy's of their works on the net, in the thousands that they hold the rights to. And to them that is a loss of revenue. And reading their statement it seems to me, that it is just not library books but all eBooks.

They can not stop what is already out in the public, but they can sure stop any new works in the eBook format.

IMHO

No it's just libraries. If you check out the stores ebooks are still being schedule to be released by them.

[DustyDisks]

Blossom, that is the way I am reading it. The cracking tools are getting too good. I can understand their viewpoint, they are just trying to keep their doors open, and eBooks too them is a outright giveaway, yes, some sales, but the books end up cracked and then the copy's spread. On the net, it looks big, and maybe bigger than it really is, and only a very small percentage of eBook users have unauthorized copy's, and the vast majority of the eBooks being used are authorized and bought.

But how can you tell? That is a question methinks no one can answer.

They are circling their wagons, against the hostile Indians!

[DustyDisks]

Originally Posted by Blossom

No it's just libraries. If you check out the stores ebooks are still being schedule to be released by them.

I was busy , running my keyboard, If I could delete I would.

If so I stand corrected.

Thank You!

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by DustyDisks

Blossom, that is the way I am reading it. The cracking tools are getting too good. I can understand their viewpoint, they are just trying to keep their doors open, and eBooks too them is a outright giveaway, yes, some sales, but the books end up cracked and then the copy's spread. On the net, it looks big, and maybe bigger than it really is, and only a very small percentage of eBook users have unauthorized copy's, and the vast majority of the eBooks being used are authorized and bought.

But how can you tell? That is a question methinks no one can answer.
i
They are circling their wagons, against the hostile Indians!

That is the excuse they are using but it has nothing to do with the reason they are targeting library lending. It just as easy to remove DRM from a store bought copy and a Library copy in epub or mobi. If that was real reason they'd remove all ebooks not just library books.

[DustyDisks]

Originally Posted by Blossom

That is the excuse they are using but it has nothing to do with the reason they are targeting library lending. It just as easy to remove DRM from a store bought copy and a Library copy in epub or mobi. If that was real reason they'd remove all ebooks not just library books.

Agree!

I my have been wrong, thinking it was going too be all new eBooks

Time will tell, how all of this will shake out!

[DiapDealer]

Their reasoning (and I'm not supporting it) is probably that with the current DRM stripping tools, you basically have to have an authorized copy (tailored for you or your reader) before you can even remove the DRM. I can't remove the DRM from your ebooks without personal information about you and/or using your physical computer. Basically, the only one who can remove the DRM is the one who went through the proper channels to get an authorized copy (for the most part).

Right now, there's two "proper channels:" buying (licensing... whatever) the ebook from a store. Or borrowing it from a library. Guess which scenario the publisher would rather you used??

People who spend their hard earned money on an ebook are less likely to mass share/upload their DeDRM'ed copy than someone who checks out a free library book and strips the DRM. The libraries have the potential to be a wholesale outlet for bulk pirates... and they don't even have to spend a penny.

Library books are the one situation where I support DRM. I wish the current tools didn't work on any library books, but when they use the exact same DRM on library books that's on retail books... what's to be done? You can't really unring the bell, ya know?

[Daveoc64]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Library books are the one situation where I support DRM.

I agree with that.

When you rent or borrow content I think it's only fair that it has DRM.

[vxf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Their reasoning (and I'm not supporting it) is probably that with the current DRM stripping tools, you basically have to have an authorized copy (tailored for you or your reader) before you can even remove the DRM. I can't remove the DRM from your ebooks without personal information about you and/or using your physical computer. Basically, the only one who can remove the DRM is the one who went through the proper channels to get an authorized copy (for the most part).

Right now, there's two "proper channels:" buying (licensing... whatever) the ebook from a store. Or borrowing it from a library. Guess which scenario the publisher would rather you used??

People who spend their hard earned money on an ebook are less likely to mass share/upload their DeDRM'ed copy than someone who checks out a free library book and strips the DRM. The libraries have the potential to be a wholesale outlet for bulk pirates... and they don't even have to spend a penny.

Library books are the one situation where I support DRM. I wish the current tools didn't work on any library books, but when they use the exact same DRM on library books that's on retail books... what's to be done? You can't really unring the bell, ya know?

I don't know if I really agree on the need to have an authorized copy. I mean... to remove DRM you have to, pretty much. But you can find ANY book already stripped out on the web - and, funny thing is, sometimes the formatting is BETTER than the ones you pay for.

They are fighting a lost battle - and they are fighting it against the wrong people. They are punishing those who actually go through the legal way, borrowing a library book, to hurt those who could not give a damn and just download pirated stuff from the web.

Don't get me wrong - I am not endorsing piracy. But when the alternative is between getting a DRM protected copy you can use on a limited number of devices and which you cannot modify (to make up for their poor formatting) and getting a non-DRM free copy pirated over the web, which you have full control of... well, you can fill in the blanks.

They need to give users a REASON to pay for an ebook - and, in that sense, Amazon's X-Ray seems to be a step in the right direction. Otherwise, the battle is already lost - and the more they fight their customers, the more it will hurt them in the long run.

I just wish they had learned something from the music industry. Apparently, not.