Batteries that charge 10x faster and last 10x longer just 5-years out, scientists say

[Pinecone]

I have not idea what he is actually saying. 5X more effective is not the same thing as 5X the capacity.

And it he is talking about capacity, they lose 50% of their capacity in 150 charge cycles? That is pretty poor performance.

And current cells can be charged at 5C. Which works out to about a 12 - 15 minute full charge. 10X that would be 50C or about 1.5 - 2 minutes. BUT, you have to supply the amperage. A 1000 mAH pack would require 50 AMPS to charge at that rate. Where are you going to get that amperage? And then the wiring need to carry that current would be a bit large and heavy.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

And it he is talking about capacity, they lose 50% of their capacity in 150 charge cycles? That is pretty poor performance.

Yes, thats why they're still working on the technology. But an initial 10x capacity compared to current batteries is amazing. Note that even losing 50% capacity after 150 cycles, they still store twice as much as current battteries. I suspect if that was the limit of the decline, they'd be going into production. But they also say it then drops off much more steeply after 150 charges.

So, a work in progress. But the most encouraging news I've heard from battery research for many years.

[Penforhire]

I read extravagant possibilities more frequently I guess (e.g. NASA Tech Briefs and EE Times trade journals).

Where are my AA batteries powered by Toshiba's "Super Charge" technology, announced in 2005 -- http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm ?

They are supposed to charge to 80% capacity in one minute (!), still have 20% capacity at -40 C (!), and only lose 1% of capacity after 1K charges (!).

[Pinecone]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Yes, thats why they're still working on the technology. But an initial 10x capacity compared to current batteries is amazing. Note that even losing 50% capacity after 150 cycles, they still store twice as much as current battteries. I suspect if that was the limit of the decline, they'd be going into production. But they also say it then drops off much more steeply after 150 charges.

So, a work in progress. But the most encouraging news I've heard from battery research for many years.

I still say the article does not say 10X more capacity. Only 10X more LIFE. And life in rechargeable batteries is typically cycle life.

And BTW if they did have 10x more capcaity and lost 50%, they would still have 5x the capacity, not twice.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It sounds like really a important invention. And being a modification of existing tech, perhaps five years out isn't out of the question.

Certainly more optimistic than the idea of practical fusion power. That one has been, to my personal knowledge, at 20 years in the future for at least 25 years now. And remains so to this day.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

I still say the article does not say 10X more capacity. Only 10X more LIFE. And life in rechargeable batteries is typically cycle life.

And BTW if they did have 10x more capcaity and lost 50%, they would still have 5x the capacity, not twice.

You're quite right on the capacity. What a silly error on my part. Yes, 50% at 150 cycles is not good but is OK. It's the "battery life begins to decline quickly after about 150 charges" that's the problem.

But you're wrong about what their claim is. the claim is "last 10 times longer". This must mean capacity, as if it just meant lifetime of use of the battery, they wouldn't be saying there was a decline to 50% after 150 charges, and a quick decline after that. Current lithium ion batteries last for lots more than 150 charges.

[pdurrant]

Here's the release from the University

allows the batteries to hold a charge up to 10 times greater than current technology

“We have found a way to extend a new lithium-ion battery’s charge life by 10 times,” said Harold H. Kung, lead author of the paper. “Even after 150 charges, which would be one year or more of operation, the battery is still five times more effective than lithium-ion batteries on the market today.”

[Pinecone]

The first quote was not the in the original article and supports your position.

The second is the same thing as previous posted and doesn't actually way the same thing. But may be due to translation issues.

And while I would love to see it (it would mean 30 minute flights with a high power EDF RC model), I will believe it when I see it.

[pdurrant]

Whether it makes it to market or not is anyone's guess, but they really are claiming that their new tech stores lots more energy in the battery.

“Now we almost have the best of both worlds,” Kung said. “We have much higher energy density because of the silicon, and the sandwiching reduces the capacity loss caused by the silicon expanding and contracting. Even if the silicon clusters break up, the silicon won’t be lost.”

(bold added)

[Namekuseijin]

more, bigger and badder for the environment.

I think we actually need more of "less is more".