Buying for someone else

[polly]

It's true that Calibre can convert to and from just about anything. However, the Kindle uses .mobi, while the Kobo and most other readers use ePubs. You should be aware that quality varies greatly with torrent books, with many of them being almost unreadable. Also, the metadata (author, title, etc.) will probably be really bad, making them hard to organize on a reader. Calibre can help with all of that, but it requires a lot of work to make a poorly formatted book readable. I think that library books may well be a better target for her.

I would recommend the Sony T1 or the Kindle for her. The T1 will download library books via WiFi directly on to the reader. Once you have it set up on her network, it's really easy to do. I believe that the Kindle will do the same thing, but I'd confirm that with the Kindle crowd. I'd stay away from the Kobo, as there are lots of complaints about fewer features and buggy firmware. I'd avoid the Nook because B&N go out of their way to tie you into their store and treat sideloaded (loaded via a cable) as segregated and second class books.

[mcrow24]

Originally Posted by VicLavigne

I was also a little disturbed by the mention of buying an ereader with the intent of putting a lot of torrented ebooks on it. It is possible that the torrented books are all public domain, which would be legal. However, I would not want to gift a person with a device full of illegally downloaded ebooks. Give the device with some free public domain works (there are huge numbers of those) and the new owner can elect how to proceed to get more on her own.

Also, outside of public domain there are lots of free contemporary ebooks available. A quick perusal of Amazon, Barnes & Nobles, Smashwords and other sites will point the way.

Vic

I agree, there are so many legit and much easier ways to acquire public domain books that I don't see somoene using torrents to get them. I highly doubt many public domain books are downloaded via torrents.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by mcrow24

I agree, there are so many legit and much easier ways to acquire public domain books that I don't see somoene using torrents to get them. I highly doubt many public domain books are downloaded via torrents.

Not everyone knows about stuff like Project Gutenberg. The OP said himself he doesn't know much about this particular tech. Did you bother to ask before you started looking down your nose?

I still find it really funny that this group of people is getting uppity about this. You may be a seemingly rare exception on this site in action, but even you say you aren't very bothered by the illegal stuff other users here do.

I could certainly argue harms of breaking DRM for any reason, even personal (though I think the solution is to get rid of DRM as it currently exists, not make it more strict). If the only reason you cite is "those are the rules" for why you follow it, why are some rules more sacred than others?

Quite a fragile perch you guys have yourselves on...

[mcrow24]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Not everyone knows about stuff like Project Gutenberg. The OP said himself he doesn't know much about this particular tech. Did you bother to ask before you started looking down your nose?

OK, if you want to think that you can but chances are....

I still find it really funny that this group of people is getting uppity about this. You may be a seemingly rare exception on this site in action, but even you say you aren't very bothered by the illegal stuff other users here do.

So I shouldn't assume that he's using torrents to download stuff illegally but you can assume that most everyone here does? Problematic logic.

I could certainly argue harms of breaking DRM for any reason, even personal (though I think the solution is to get rid of DRM as it currently exists, not make it more strict). If the only reason you cite is "those are the rules" for why you follow it, why are some rules more sacred than others?

Quite a fragile perch you guys have yourselves on...

I didn't state a reason for DRM. Like I said, I don't like DRM but understand there reason for it (piracy). I clearly stated why downloading books illegally is wrong.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I'm not assuming anything. Most posters here talk about stripping DRM quite casually. You are literally the first person I have ever read or heard of with more than 10 posts on this site who says you have not stripped DRM. The only one. Keep in mind, in the country of residence of the majority of the people here, stripping DRM is illegal.

And that is the reason you give for not doing it. And yet, you don't have much of a problem with people who do for personal use.

Many here even talk of sharing it with family or friends casually. No one seems too bothered by this. But your average pirate doesn't cost an author any more sales than casual sharing does. Most pirates are not mass seeders. Many don't seed at all.

If illegality is the only reason you have, then you're only being very slightly less hypocritical than the rest. And on a harm level, there is little difference between the practices of most people on MobileRead, which don't bother you, and the practices of pirates, which do bother you.

All I'm saying is 2 things:
1. Ask before you start brow-beating people.
2. Examine whether your own actions and ethics give you a leg to stand on before brow-beating people.

[mcrow24]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

I'm not assuming anything. Most posters here talk about stripping DRM quite casually. You are literally the first person I have ever read or heard of with more than 10 posts on this site who says you have not stripped DRM. The only one. Keep in mind, in the country of residence of the majority of the people here, stripping DRM is illegal.

And that is the reason you give for not doing it. And yet, you don't have much of a problem with people who do for personal use.

Many here even talk of sharing it with family or friends casually. No one seems too bothered by this. But your average pirate doesn't cost an author any more sales than casual sharing does. Most pirates are not mass seeders. Many don't seed at all.

If illegality is the only reason you have, then you're only being very slightly less hypocritical than the rest. And on a harm level, there is little difference between the practices of most people on MobileRead, which don't bother you, and the practices of pirates, which do bother you.

All I'm saying is 2 things:
1. Ask before you start brow-beating people.
2. Examine whether your own actions and ethics give you a leg to stand on before brow-beating people.

You misunderstand. I don't have that much of a problem with stripping DRM since post of the time you already paid for the book and just want to transfer it to another device or device that does not support the DRM. I said I understand why they use DRM. I don't strip DRM because I feel it is wrong and a pain in ass when I can buy my books straight from Amazon and read them on my Kindle no problem. More often than not they are about the same price as anywhere else. If others want to strip DRM that's fine, I don't think that most people that strip DRM are doing it for pirating purposes.

My beef is with torrenting or illegally downloading non-public domain books. As someone who writes, I think it is offensive if someone obtains my work without my permission (paying for it). If it's not OK to go to a brick and mortar store and shop lift a book, it's not OK to download a torrent of it either.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by mcrow24

You misunderstand. I don't have that much of a problem with stripping DRM since post of the time you already paid for the book and just want to transfer it to another device or device that does not support the DRM. I said I understand why they use DRM. I don't strip DRM because I feel it is wrong and a pain in ass when I can buy my books straight from Amazon and read them on my Kindle no problem. More often than not they are about the same price as anywhere else. If others want to strip DRM that's fine, I don't think that most people that strip DRM are doing it for pirating purposes.

My beef is with torrenting or illegally downloading non-public domain books. As someone who writes, I think it is offensive if someone obtains my work without my permission (paying for it). If it's not OK to go to a brick and mortar store and shop lift a book, it's not OK to download a torrent of it either.

None of that has anything to do with the argument I presented.

I understand your beef. You haven't addressed the casual sharing aspect that's common amongst users (here and in general, paper books and ebooks), and how it compares against the habits of the average pirate. A casual sharing aspect, keep in mind, which is not very different from casual sharing of physical books.

I am also not making an argument of what I think is right. That is a question I still ponder, and in the mean time err on the side of caution - I don't buy DRM'ed books, I do strip DRM from free books for personal use, but don't share any book that is not public domain. I'm not arguing what's right or what isn't. I am arguing that ethics don't existing in a vacuum.

You refuse to touch on the full breadth of what DRM stripping really means. Perhaps because it really puts into context how arbitrary your standard is.

And you still have not demonstrated to me how you arrived at your justification for brow-beating a poster of unknown intent without bothering to ask.

I am a writer as well. But I won't let irrational and poorly-founded fear cloud my judgement about how something works here in reality. In the case of DRM, poorly, for both writers and readers. Writing's a tough market. It always will be. Get over it. Using a bad system isn't going to change that. All it's going to do is tick off your customers and ultimately cost you at least as many sales as it saves (and that's the optimistic view - in reality you probably don't even break even).

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

You are literally the first person I have ever read or heard of with more than 10 posts on this site who says you have not stripped DRM. The only one.

I've never stripped the DRM off of ebooks, music, or movies.

[Catlady]

As far as using torrents to download public domain books--right at Project Gutenberg there are instructions for using torrents to download thousands of such books in one fell swoop. See here. PG is where I first learned about torrents, in fact.

[mcrow24]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

None of that has anything to do with the argument I presented.

I understand your beef. You haven't addressed the casual sharing aspect that's common amongst users (here and in general, paper books and ebooks), and how it compares against the habits of the average pirate. A casual sharing aspect, keep in mind, which is not very different from casual sharing of physical books.

many ereaders/stores allow for sharing. You can also check ebooks out from the library.

I am also not making an argument of what I think is right. That is a question I still ponder, and in the mean time err on the side of caution - I don't buy DRM'ed books, I do strip DRM from free books for personal use, but don't share any book that is not public domain. I'm not arguing what's right or what isn't. I am arguing that ethics don't existing in a vacuum.

I don't have a problem with DRM being stripped for personal use but like I said, I do understand why exists. Not that I really like DRM but it's clear why it is done.

You refuse to touch on the full breadth of what DRM stripping really means. Perhaps because it really puts into context how arbitrary your standard is.

I guess you're going to have to explain to me how this is true. "fulll breadth" seriously? All it is, is protection the content of the file from being used outside of given device (for the most part anyway). It keeps things being copies, printed, or shared. I understand the whole anti-control aspect. However, you cannot compare trading paperbacks with trading ebooks. You can easily make it so that unlimited copies of ebooks are availible for download if there wasn't anything to stop it.

And you still have not demonstrated to me how you arrived at your justification for brow-beating a poster of unknown intent without bothering to ask.

99% of torrents are illegal. I have yet to run into anyone who used torrents to download stuff that was PD. The purpose and intent of torrents is to illegally distribute files. If you think otherwise you are not being honest.

IMO, torrents are nothing more than online black markets with the sole purpose of getting something for nothing. Can you get legal content from torrents? Sure, but the light will shine on a dog's ass once in while as well.

And for the record, the OP has yet to come back and dispute that he was using illegal torrents.

I am a writer as well. But I won't let irrational and poorly-founded fear cloud my judgement about how something works here in reality. In the case of DRM, poorly, for both writers and readers. Writing's a tough market. It always will be. Get over it. Using a bad system isn't going to change that. All it's going to do is tick off your customers and ultimately cost you at least as many sales as it saves (and that's the optimistic view - in reality you probably don't even break even).

Again, I'll say it for 4th time, I don't really have that much of an issue with stripping DRM. I don't like DRM. My area of concern is torrents and illegal file sharing. As I stated above, DRM does not stop pirating in any meaningful way and I don't agree with it but understand the intent. If someone wants to strip DRM from my books for their personal use, I couldn't care less. Personally, I don't strip DRM because I tend to go with the flow and my entire library is through Amazon anyway. I do think that it is illegal to strip DRM (maybe I'm wrong on that) but that is also another good reason not to do it.

[volume789]

Originally Posted by niclem

Hi All,

Looking to purchase an e read for my mom for christmas, looking for an easy to use device that I can put torrent downloaded books on it for her. From a quick bit of research I've read that files need to be in an epub file format and then they can be transferred easily to a kobo or kindle, and if the file isn't in that format you can use http://calibre-ebook.com/ to get it there. If someone can confirm it is in fact that easy and which e reader is best that would be great! I'm tech savvy but uneducated when it comes to the e readers!
Thanks in advance.

Yes, it is that easy. If you are in Ontario, the Kobo epub is compatible with the library systems - free books for 21 days.

[vishcompany]

Originally Posted by mcrow24

...

99% of torrents are illegal. I have yet to run into anyone who used torrents to download stuff that was PD. The purpose and intent of torrents is to illegally distribute files. If you think otherwise you are not being honest.

...

I for one used to download updates of various Linux distributions (before switching to Arch ) via torrent. (Well, that's not PD, just GPL). Why? Because they ask to do so to have less load on their servers. I am aware, that this is a minority of torrent traffic.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

mcrow, I have attempted to explain to you these concepts over and over. Even when the context is presented in the very sentence you quote, you still manage to miss it. You're simply determined not to listen, or incapable of understanding, so I won't bother any further.

But in closing, it's telling that you pull a completely fabricated number out of your hat to defend your argument when the post right above yours gives a great example of thousands upon thousands of free, legal torrents that are widely used.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

I'd just like to point out that although I don't know the OP's intent, there are plenty of legal torrent sites that do ebooks, and plenty of books that are legal to torrent regardless of source.

While intent to pirate isn't an unreasonable possibility, it is certainly presumptuous to assume that is the OP's intent and lambast them without asking what their intent actually is....

Originally Posted by Catlady

As far as using torrents to download public domain books--right at Project Gutenberg there are instructions for using torrents to download thousands of such books in one fell swoop. See here. PG is where I first learned about torrents, in fact.

The two of you have made some interesting points, and I must confess that I rashly posted the mod notice without considering all the possibilities. Please accept my apologies, and I have modified the intro to the mod notice accordingly.

Thank you both for your input.

[swiftness]

Kindle, kindle, kindle