Perceptions of history

[Keryl Raist]

I'd say the biggest change is the fact that we live in a world where we can all see and be part of the change.

For the vast majority of history just about everyone lived in one tiny area with almost all of their information concerning just that area.

It's really only been the last 150 years where most (western) people have lived in a global world. Say the last fifty years for the rest of the world.

I remember one writer saying about the Rennasance that in England they barely knew it was happening. It wasn't common knowledge there until it had been over for a few centuries.

[Daithi]

I can see the divisions of time.

I can see the changes in style and technology. When I think 60s, I think hippies, war protesters, muscle cars, and drugs. When I think 70s I think stoners, disco, polyester, and cameros. When I think 80s its Miami Vice suits, Phil Collins type music, a war on drugs, and personal computers. When I think 90s it is grunge, cellphones, and the internet. The 2000s is hoodies, Google, and iPods.

However, I think people are really the same no matter when they are living. The styles and technology are different but the people are the same.

I also see a conflict that never seems to be resolved -- should the rights of the individual be respected and protected, or is society better off when the needs of the group as a whole takes priority? This one question seems to pendulum back and forth.

Lastly, I see periods of time where "something" is demonized. Witches in the pre-1650s, the rich in late 1700s France, the rich in early 1900s Russia, Blacks in the pre-1970s, and Jews, well, forever. It seems like society as a whole always has to hate and demonize something or someone. Somehow, I think this is related to individual vs. society question, because when the group becomes most important you often have sub-groups.

[ekster]

Originally Posted by Keryl Raist

I remember one writer saying about the Rennasance that in England they barely knew it was happening. It wasn't common knowledge there until it had been over for a few centuries.

I find that it's the case even now. I'm only in my mid 20s, I saw no change as I grew up. The world in 2010 is no different than in 1990... that is, until I look back.

Looking at the 90s, I already see a huge difference. Computers alone are a huge change if we compare what we had in the 80's the 90's the 00's and now in 2011. Speed and memory skyrocketed. Size went from a huge bulky slow box to a slim pretty box to a laptop, to a netbook, and now to tablets and cellphones.

Internet is another huge breakthrough. Comparing the web of the 90s to now is like comparing a horse to a Ferrari.

Then there's display screens. From those bulky CRTs to LCD, Plasma, and now we have ultra thin flexible displays being worked on.

Cellphones went from a pricey huge bricks to inexpensive tiny computers.

Touchscreen used to be "Wow, look at that!", now it's "WTF? No touchscreen? Lame."

And technology keeps on growing faster and faster. I'm sure that the changes in 2020, or 2030 will be even bigger than we can imagine, but none of us will notice it as we live day by day. But whenever we look back, it'll be a whole different story.

And soon enough, this technology era will end, and we'll have a new era... maybe fission, maybe super computer, maybe AI, or biotechnological era... either way, I bet if we're still alive, no one will notice it. It'll just creep in on us slowly, and then one day become the norm.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by Daithi

I also see a conflict that never seems to be resolved -- should the rights of the individual be respected and protected, or is society better off when the needs of the group as a whole takes priority? This one question seems to pendulum back and forth.

This has gone off the rails because we have put private ahead of public too much in design and now attitudes. At least in North America, we've lost public space both in our downtowns and in our suburban streets. There is a discontent in paying taxes towards things that the individual may not use, but that the collective public needs to improve the life for many which oddly enough would improve the life of individuals themself. We've got a whole century of elevating the private onto a pedestal to overcome when we talk about anything for common good. Heaven forbid we try to help the many when you expect me to give up even a smidgen of what one purports to be mine.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Daithi

I also see a conflict that never seems to be resolved -- should the rights of the individual be respected and protected, or is society better off when the needs of the group as a whole takes priority? This one question seems to pendulum back and forth.

That question in one form or another, goes back at least to the battle of Salamis: Do citizens belong to the government or does government belong to the citizens? Who owns your labors and dreams?

Whether it be couched in terms of democracy vs autocracy, group rights vs personal accountability, big government vs small government, or any of a hundred permutations, that question is one every society in every age has to answer for itself.
John F. Kennedy had one answer, Stalin another, Margaret Thatcher still another.

Answers abound, none final; the question is a test every generation of human must face.

[stonetools]

Really interesting thread.

I love reading history and am currently shuttling between two books: this one and this. They both seem very good as far as I've read.

Thanks for reminding me to put "The Swerve" on wish list.
What's intersting,especuially for a cience fiction reader, is the fact that thatthe rest of world is rapidly sharing in technological advances that once thappened only in the West.
Think of the space race. It was once a two horse race and the SF of the 60s could not concieve of it any other way. As a minority person reading SF, it appeared that people of color would not even make it to the future .
Now hell, it could be a four horse race-the USA, the EU, China and India. The first starship could be the ISS Krishna!
I think in the past, revolutions only in one country or region. Today, there is no question that we are living in an era of globalization, where the whole world shares in change-whether technological, economic or political . Indeed, if there are any historians to look back on the present era, they will most likely call it the Age of Globalization.

[rkomar]

It's hard to remember today, but I remember that, before the collapse of the Soviet Union, we walked around every day with the unspoken knowledge that we could see missiles arcing overhead and be vapourized at any moment. Life was different as that danger dissipated.

In the other direction, Sept. 11 2001 has made living in the West much uglier. Ugly because of fear, and those who profit by it. Oh well, at least we had the 90's.

[speakingtohe]

History is in the eye of the beholder these days and IMO it is being written and rewritten everywhere.
I ws talking to my 24 year old Romanian roommate (I am 61 year old Canadian) and he was telling me that Germany was much better off today because of Hitler. Well as you can guess I begged to defer.

After we thrashed this out for a while he said it could not happen in North America and again I disagreed. It could have happened here. And in some ways it did.
http://www.ubcpress.ca/search/title_...sp?BookID=1506

Then there is the aboriginal issue
http://www.turtletrack.org/Issues02/...avut_names.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...l-schools.html

As I told my roommate, I am glad I am Canadian, but not particularly proud of it.

And I find that links to anything detrimental to the reputation of Canada are increasingly harder to find and we are hardly a super power.

History is being rewritten and I am not convinced that is a good thing

Helen

[Keryl Raist]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

History is in the eye of the beholder these days and IMO it is being written and rewritten everywhere.
I ws talking to my 24 year old Romanian roommate (I am 61 year old Canadian) and he was telling me that Germany was much better off today because of Hitler. Well as you can guess I begged to defer.

Helen

Sorry, this floors me. Better in relation to what? A mythical world where WWII never happens and somehow because of that everything is worse?

I mean, I've certainly seen that there is a very pro Hitler movement in eastern Europe these days, but I was under the impression that like the Nazi party in America it was tiny group of nutjobs.

[Keryl Raist]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That question in one form or another, goes back at least to the battle of Salamis: Do citizens belong to the government or does government belong to the citizens? Who owns your labors and dreams?

Whether it be couched in terms of democracy vs autocracy, group rights vs personal accountability, big government vs small government, or any of a hundred permutations, that question is one every society in every age has to answer for itself.
John F. Kennedy had one answer, Stalin another, Margaret Thatcher still another.

Answers abound, none final; the question is a test every generation of human must face.

That put it very nicely.

Who owns your labors and dreams... I may have to steal that for future use. Thank you.

[DMB]

Originally Posted by Keryl Raist

Sorry, this floors me. Better in relation to what? A mythical world where WWII never happens and somehow because of that everything is worse?

I mean, I've certainly seen that there is a very pro Hitler movement in eastern Europe these days, but I was under the impression that like the Nazi party in America it was tiny group of nutjobs.

Well Hitler did build the autobahnen and give us the Volkswagen.

[Keryl Raist]

Originally Posted by DMB

Well Hitler did build the autobahnen and give us the Volkswagen.

Ah yes, how could I have overlooked that?



Usually, when you see twits spouting things like that in the US, it's not so much history being rewritten as entirely ignored.

[speakingtohe]

Ah yes, how could I have overlooked that?



Usually, when you see twits spouting things like that in the US, it's not so much history being rewritten as entirely ignored.

Perhaps I am reading more into your words than intended, but I do not feel that the US is any better or indeed any worse in the areas of freedom, discrimination and the respect of individuals whether at home or abroad.

Helen