Amazon Launches SF/Fantasy/Horror Imprint "47North"

[birdbrainbb]

I've only heard of one of the authors listed in the press release, and he doesn't write very good books. So...kind of disappointing.

[murraypaul]

It certainly wasn't a big splash of a launch, as far as the talent signed up.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Considering their first year's output adds up to 15 titles it wouldn't make much sense to launch three imprints.

Historically the borders between the three were not all that strongly defined and many of the early (pre-Astounding) venues mixed and matched at will as did the writers.

Yeah. Writers like Lovecraft and Howard often seemed to have elements of both fantasy & horror mixed together and of course fantasy is often the flip side of science fiction. In one you push a button to do something and in the other you call upon a genie or such.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by crich70

Yeah. Writers like Lovecraft and Howard often seemed to have elements of both fantasy & horror mixed together and of course fantasy is often the flip side of science fiction. In one you push a button to do something and in the other you call upon a genie or such.

Well, that is only true in the sketchiest of views; good sf needs to be scientifically plausible as well as self-consistent, while even good fantasy only requires consistency of its world.

But they are both sibling genres that take us to worlds beyond and both overlap with horror from time to time: early FAFRHD/MOUSER tales had the two face some clearly lovecraftian horrors, and one who didn't know "better" could hardly be faulted for seeing the Eddorians from LENSMEN as elder gods from a demonic realm. Heinlein's GLORY ROAD is so wrapped in the logic of SF it can be easy to forget it is actually a fantasy at heart, while the early Harold Shea fantasies put up a faint veneer of SF to get past the bias of the day.

CL Moore's classic SHAMBLEAU is as much a horror tale as it is adventure SF.
And Hollywood has rarely bothered with border formalities whether it be the classic TWILIGHT ZONE or OUTER LIMITS or more modern efforts such as Scott's ALIEN or the execrable EVENT HORIZON.

The three genres are distinct at their cores but at the frontiers there's ample room for creative overlap. Fortunately.

[DiapDealer]

Author Michael A. Stackpole's take on Amazon's 47North announcement.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Author Michael A. Stackpole's take on Amazon's 47North announcement.

He makes a good point about Amazon's ability to identify hot new (self-published) authors *before* they become hot; between customer reviews, sales data, and customer purchase profiles they can identify *who* a specific book might appeal to, what kind of reader. And since they know how many of their customers fall in a given taste-group they can easily calculate a ceiling for a specific title and decide whether their resources can boost its sales enough to be worth their involvement. That is pretty much the same decision old-school publishers make except Amazon has more data to base their investment on, which makes it less risky.
Reminds me a bit of the scouting vs stats-based player evaluation divide in pro baseball. You really need a mix of both approaches to maximize the influx of talent but teams that stick to the old-school approach are handicapping themselves needlessly.

It'll be interesting to track 47th North titles over the next few years.
I suspect they won't necessarilly be much better than the traditionals at identifying monster talents, but I do think they'll do a lot better in finding grade A and A- talents while avoiding the "three chapter wiz'es".

[Renaldo]

Originally Posted by RDaneel54

Wonder why they grouped horror in with science fiction and fantasy. Seems like a different demographic to me (for example, I like SF and fantasy but can't stand horror).

Heh, I like horror and SF, but can't stand fantasy.

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

He makes a good point about Amazon's ability to identify hot new (self-published) authors *before* they become hot; between customer reviews, sales data, and customer purchase profiles they can identify *who* a specific book might appeal to, what kind of reader. And since they know how many of their customers fall in a given taste-group they can easily calculate a ceiling for a specific title and decide whether their resources can boost its sales enough to be worth their involvement. That is pretty much the same decision old-school publishers make except Amazon has more data to base their investment on, which makes it less risky.
Reminds me a bit of the scouting vs stats-based player evaluation divide in pro baseball. You really need a mix of both approaches to maximize the influx of talent but teams that stick to the old-school approach are handicapping themselves needlessly.

It'll be interesting to track 47th North titles over the next few years.
I suspect they won't necessarilly be much better than the traditionals at identifying monster talents, but I do think they'll do a lot better in finding grade A and A- talents while avoiding the "three chapter wiz'es".

its pretty much a form of giving people exactly what they want instead of guessing what they want and having it fall flat.

however i wish they'd have picked Larson's Star Force series, the world doesn't need any more urban fantasy...

[Prestidigitweeze]

Isn't Amazon doing this partly to break major publishers' stranglehold on pricing? Perhaps 47North is the gateway drug to established authors' self-publishing.

Majors have fought Amazon's $9.99 ebook pricing ever since it was first suggested. Amazon's initial move with 47North was to publish the mobi edition of The Mongoliad: Book One for $7.99. That's substantially cheaper than the $9.99 paperback edition, as instinct tells the consumer an ebook ought to be.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Isn't Amazon doing this partly to break major publishers' stranglehold on pricing?

"Sometimes a cigar is just a smoke."

Amazon is an opportunistic company that jumps on any opening to make a buck. With ebooks disrupting the balance of power between authors and publishers there is (and for the next few years, will be) an opening for new publishers to get into the game by signing up established authors disastisfied with the terms and practices of traditional publishers.

No need to overthink it: Amazon needs content for Kindle, preferably exclusive. What better, and cheaper, way to secure exclusive Kindle content than by signing up the content producer directly?

The pricing? Last I heard, the average of the prices of the most popular commercial fiction ebooks at the Kindle store was $6.31. At $7.99 they're actually charging a 30% premium. Sneaky, aren't they?

http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2011/...-kindle-store/

[J. Strnad]

So have those of us who price their book at $2.99 earned Amazon's scorn?

[xg4bx]

if publishers feel the squeeze they'll be forced to drop the prices of their books accordingly.

the industry, and consumers, NEED someone with massive clout like amazon to break the backs of their stone-age thinking. competition is good and usually leads to lower prices.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

if publishers feel the squeeze they'll be forced to drop the prices of their books accordingly.

the industry, and consumers, NEED someone with massive clout like amazon to break the backs of their stone-age thinking. competition is good and usually leads to lower prices.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The pricing? Last I heard, the average of the prices of the most popular commercial fiction ebooks at the Kindle store was $6.31. At $7.99 they're actually charging a 30% premium. Sneaky, aren't they?

That's not the pricing I've been talking about. The book I mentioned, Neil Stephenson's Mongolian: Book One, is new and has just been published by Amazon for $7.99.

Major publishers' prices for any books by Stephenson, let alone, new ones, are higher. Note that Snow Crash, a very old book by the same author, is currently priced at $9.99.

The focus is this: new books from major publishers and books for which publishers demand ridiculous premiums no matter how old they might be. I've seen ePub editions listed in the Google eBookstore priced at over a hundred dollars.

The two-dollar margin in Stephenson's and others' case, and instances of ridiculous pricing at Google's eBookstore, are the kinds of excesses Amazon might be aiming at with strategies like 47North.

Originally Posted by xg4bx

if publishers feel the squeeze they'll be forced to drop the prices of their books accordingly.

Exactly. I was thinking specifically of the price war Amazon tried to fight with publishers prior to Jobs' cutting deals for the iPad, as discussed in this New Yorker article:

"Publish or Perish"

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

That's not the pricing I mean. The book I mentioned, Stephenson's Mongolian: Book One, is new and has just been published by Amazon for $7.99.

I'm talking about new books from major publishers and books for which they demand ridiculous premiums no matter how old the book might happen to be. I've seen ePub editions listed in the Google eBookstore priced at over a hundred dollars.

Those are the books Amazon might be aiming at eventually with strategies like 47North.



Exactly. I was thinking specifically of the price war Amazon tried to fight with publishers prior to Jobs cutting deals with the iPad, as discussed in this New Yorker article:

"Publish or Perish"

Excellent Link! Thank you! Karma on the way. Also very interesting given the recent Kindle Fire (and other new Kindles) announcement!

I'm rolling on the floor about "The Jesus Tablet" line!



P.S. just finished reading it completely. It seems a very thorough examination of the ebook publishing situation at that time!