Scrivener for Windows

[James_Wilde]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

I've used Word and OpenOffice and LibreOffice, and the minute I touched Scrivener it was like I fell in love.

That's how I reacted first to getting my first Mac (actually this took about a week) and then to downloading Scrivener.

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

I write my story, then compile it as .odt or .doc, bringing it all back together in LibreOffice for a final run through.

So you're another happy LibO user, Harper.

[Harper Kingsley]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

So you're another happy LibO user, Harper.

Yep. Started with OpenOffice, then just transitioned to the next best thing. It's free, it does everything Word does, and I just like the way it looks.

I didn't use Word for a couple of years, then wanted to do something real quick on a friend's computer... and Word just seemed so awkward to me. LO is the way to go!

[Andanzas]

I just installed demo versions of both Scrivener for Windows and WriteWay. Both are very powerful programs and it is clear that a lot of thought has been put into them. Scrivener's interface is cleaner and more intuitive than Writeway's, which is a little bit clunky and looks more complex than it should be. I am going to give Writeway a try because is cheaper thanks to the coupon they are currently offering (Scrivener also offers a 50% off but you have to win Nano to get it, and unfortunately I don't have the time to do that). But I suspect I am going to end up buying Scrivener. I love the split view (as I am a translator, I think it might come in handy when I am translating a PDF that can't be converted to another format). In Writeway, Research opens up only in a new window, so I don't think you can check your writing and your research side by side as in Scrivener (I might be wrong, of course, and I just didn't find that option).

What gives me pause is the upcoming support for Scrivener. The guy behind it has stated that he wants to focus on his writing (good for him!), so he pretty much plans to abandon the program. It is doubtful he will add new feautures once he thinks the Windows version is done. So WriteWay seems to have more potential for improving. Well, I'll keep trying both, but I am pretty sure I will buy one or the other.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Andanzas

What gives me pause is the upcoming support for Scrivener. The guy behind it has stated that he wants to focus on his writing (good for him!), so he pretty much plans to abandon the program. It is doubtful he will add new feautures once he thinks the Windows version is done. So WriteWay seems to have more potential for improving. Well, I'll keep trying both, but I am pretty sure I will buy one or the other.

Really? Well then I think I will avoid messing with that program. Hate to get attached to it and have it die off....

[Andanzas]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Really? Well then I think I will avoid messing with that program. Hate to get attached to it and have it die off....

Well, I didn't express myself correctly (once again!). I can't find the link now, but what I remember is this: don't buy the program if you are not happy with his current features... because maybe there are not more features coming. He is not going to let the program die off (he will keep fixing bugs, for example, and will consider new features requested by users), but he is going to focus on his writing.

I'll try to look for the link later.

[Andanzas]

Here it is:

What is the roadmap of Scrivener’s future development?
Unlike many applications on the market, Scrivener was designed to be feature complete and as bug free as possible upon its initial release. The application you are using is the result of years of work, research, and refinement. It has long been the stated intention of the developer to cease active expansion of Scrivener’s features upon its final release, while he begins active work on his book. Bug fixes and compatibility updates will be made, of course, but new features will be considered for potential inclusion as a distant future possibility. As stated by the developer:

…So, please don’t buy Scrivener if you think it could become the app for you - only buy it if it is already the app for you. I will, of course, continue to answer queries, provide support, and I will note down all items on the wish-list which I think might be worthy of consideration for a future version.

http://literatureandlatte.com/wiki/d...re_development

[ipetraka]

Yeah, that wiki entry is kind of old, even though it does express what remains an abstract philosophy to date. Basically, a lot of people buy active software on the premise that if they badger the developer enough they'll get whatever features they want---or they get attached to some notion that they feel the software really ought to do, and then feel ripped off it is doesn't come to fruition. So basically, don't expect *that* kind of development, where every feature request gets jammed in somewhere, and buying a licence entitles one to "vote" for features. So basically, don't buy Scrivener if it doesn't do something you really need.

The overall strategy of the application is maintained by one person, Keith Blount. He and I will discuss things to death. Every menu label and pixel in the interface is debated over, and we then test things back and forth for about a month or so before releasing changes to public beta, which bounces around users and gathers feedback, and finally becomes a part of the program officially. To see what all a typical release of Scrivener looks like, I'd point you to:

http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivChangeList.php

And I'd also point out that this is only last year's development, which started with a 2.x release so mammoth that there never even was a proper change log assembled. Best we've got is the "What's New" chapter (ahem) in the user manual. And at the bottom of that page you'll find a link to a whole different page that extends all the way back to initial release. Yup, that same initial release that promised to be the end of active development in the wiki, nearly five years ago.

Obviously, plans change. Back then Scrivener was one part-time teacher's hobby. Today it pays for several full-time salaries, including Keith who is now an ex-teacher, and a few part-timers as well. And we all love what we do and why we are doing it. By no means a big operation, but compared to your average shareware out there, it's got an actual team of people that are supporting it, designing it, documenting it, coding it, and continuing to keep it viable and modernised going forward. That team expanded for Windows, and may continue to do so for other platforms in the future.

So, sorry about the miscommunication on the wiki. Even though we do spend all day working on this thing, there are always 50 things on my list every day that don't get done for every 1 thing I do. Keeping up the wiki has been one of those 50 for a while too long I fear.

But for you, having Scrivener fall by the wayside is not something I think you have to fear.

--
Ioa Petra'ka
Scrivener - Outline. Edit. Storyboard. Write.
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/

[frahse]

I had not heard of these possible developments.

Thanks for the information.

[VydorScope]

Ioa,

THanks for that clarification. I'll go back to considering it.

If DONT work in chunks, I wonder if there is value in this tool. I would love to take all my story notes and organize them some place, especially stuff like the time line that I am tracking through 3 novels now.

[ipetraka]

Vincent,

This is true, if you don't work in chunks the program may have less appeal as it is very much designed around the notion of constructing a long work as pieces and allowing an outline to emerge out of that---or the other way around is just as easy if one is a meticulous planner---or if one writes in long shots stuff can be broken down afterward with a simple shortcut. Now, I myself would ask the question: do you not write in pieces because you've been accustomed to software that discourages that? If the program you're using, say it's Word, makes it a huge pain to visualise the larger work from a folder full of files, then yes anyone will find themselves tending toward not writing that way, even if by nature---if liberated from the constraints of their tools---they would write in pieces.

The thing that sets Scrivener apart from other tools that take a piecemeal approach is its dynamic scoping ability, or the "Scrivenings" feature, which is a way of selecting an arbitrary slice of the entire book and viewing/editing it as though it were a single file in a word processor. For instance, many of of veterans break things down even smaller than scenes. Some go all the way down to paragraphs in tricky parts. You'd go insane trying to do that in Word, because no matter how good your Alt-Tab skills are, it'll be impossible to get a bird's eye view of the scene/chapter/part/book. In an outline that lets you expand or collapse the size of the text slice you are looking at dynamically, based on how much you want to see at that moment, it is however not a problem at all. It is inconsequential whether you've got 80 pieces of chapter or two. Meanwhile that piecemeal approach lets you take orthogonal views of your narrative that you might never have previously considered possible, like pulling every scene that character X is in and throwing them into a collection bin and reading them one after the other so you can monitor the character development and make sure there are no growth reversion or other pitfalls. Having an agile outline like that means so much more than just looking at a master authorial table of contents. It means all kinds of secondary benefits.

So that's really the key philosophical hurdle, I think, to understanding why this program works the way it does. It gets more powerful the smaller you break things down (to an obvious point, of course), without losing the ability to approach large sections of manuscript as though you were looking at "chapter_21.doc". Would there be value in it if you do use it that way? A long series of chapter length files? Absolutely. A lot of people work that way and love the program. I'd say far fewer take it a level higher and just write in one long item in the outliner---there is really no reason to do that---and it would constrict your options to work that way, like not getting a nice automatically formatted and linked table of contents in your epub. It would be like not using header styles in Word.

For serial novels like you mention; yup we've got a lot of folks doing that. While the program was designed around the one project one book model, it works quite well for series, too. You get all of your research in one place, scenes from book 12 can link back to scenes in book 3, you can view the total arc of a character from age 12 to age 70. Get as epic as you want and the software will let you go there.

[Anke Wehner]

I've used a program meant for constructing novels by chapter and scene for writing and organising my flash fiction - one "scene" is one story, and I sorted them into "chapters" depending when and where I posted them, plus "chapters" for ideas, drafts, and finished but unpublished stories. I used the character and setting options to make it easy to find the few stories that were connected. Works nicely, too.

[mrscoach]

I'm using the nano trial version and am still trying to grope my way through it, but I'm liking what I have used so far. Admittedly there are a lot of features I haven't used, but I'm sure I will eventually. I just don't have time to play with it during nano.
I do like breaking up the scenes, and didn't think I would because I'm so used to writing in Word. Scenes is more like what I do when I write by hand in notebooks, I group them and can flip through scenes quickly.

[VydorScope]

Im around 82k words in to Volume 3 of my series, I might try this program out when I start volume 4... my editor uses word though so not sure how that will work out?

[mrscoach]

I believe you have to compile what you have written and put it into Word. That's my understanding, anyway.

[Andanzas]

Well, Scriveners for Windows has been oficially released... It sells for 40$ or 30€. I purchased it and so far I am very pleased with the program.

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Im around 82k words in to Volume 3 of my series, I might try this program out when I start volume 4... my editor uses word though so not sure how that will work out?

Yes, as mrscoach said, you can compile (export) as several formats: rtf, doc, docx, pdf... There is a demo version, so you can try it out first and see if it's worth buying to you.