Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-01-2011, 09:30 AM   #16
carld
Wizard
carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carld ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,698
Karma: 4748723
Join Date: Dec 2007
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
I'm betting the cost is closer to the $150 range. I also don't believe Amazon ever sold the Kindle line at a loss. Their profit margin might not be huge, but I expect they do a heck of a sales volume.
carld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 10:02 AM   #17
molman
Evangelist
molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 436
Karma: 538958
Join Date: Jul 2011
Device: none
@Kali Yuga: Agreed. Costs often tend to be stack towards the beginning of a product lifecycle and generally only go down from there, and as you said it really depends on how they choose to present costs on the ledger.

One thing Amazon likely has is a reasonable grasp of the value of a customer, and some decent modelling for what profit they see themselves gaining with a device like the Fire acting as proxy.

That said the guestimates are such that I doubt they lose a dime on the hardware sold over a year regardless of other profits gained in content sales and such.
molman is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 10-01-2011, 10:04 AM   #18
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383099
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by molman View Post
That said the guestimates are such that I doubt they lose a dime on the hardware sold over a year regardless of other profits gained in content sales and such.
They have to recoup the R&D costs, though. Even though the Fire seems to be largely based on the Blackberry Playbook hardware, I'm sure that those costs were not insignificant.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 10:20 AM   #19
molman
Evangelist
molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 436
Karma: 538958
Join Date: Jul 2011
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
They have to recoup the R&D costs, though. Even though the Fire seems to be largely based on the Blackberry Playbook hardware, I'm sure that those costs were not insignificant.
Still personally doubt it, but really were unlikely to ever really know so as Kali Yuga said, what does it really matter.
molman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 10:35 AM   #20
SteveEisenberg
Grand Sorcerer
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,422
Karma: 43514536
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: near Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by =X= View Post
Also selling devices below cost --in order to keep a copeditor from competing is illegal, I wonder if anyone will sue; there has never been a suit.
I'd never predict a lawsuit won't happen. But to win, wouldn't there have to be a domestic producer of eBooks making a claim against a foreign producer? Because such consumer devices have intellectual and physical components from around the world, it's hard to see this being a problem for Amazon. The Chinese and Taiwanese firms involved in hardware assembly might be at slightly more risk.

Has there ever been a poll here asking people, yes or no, whether they ever purchased Kindle content (books, newspapers, magazines, or blogs) from Amazon? I'm betting that the great majority of owners have, and not just once for a $/€/£ or two.

Expanding on Harry in #7: For Amazon to be selling at a loss, you have to take the total device lifetime revenue and have that be less than the total device lifetime cost paid for R&D, manufacturing, telephone support, fees to book publishers, etc.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 10-01-2011 at 10:40 AM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 10-01-2011, 11:02 AM   #21
SteveEisenberg
Grand Sorcerer
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,422
Karma: 43514536
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: near Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billi View Post
Why is this good?
Why is it good if we get a below-cost price?

Excellent question.

Ask Jeff Bezos why it's good for him to have US$20 billion instead of US$10 billion.

Unless you are in poverty, on the consumer side, or care more about your employees than your stockholders, on the business side, I suppose it's a game.

My wife and I are not big into couponing, but isn't there a sense of achievement when you use a doubled coupon on a sale item and know you are getting it for free, or for a few cents and thus likely below costs?

Now, the desire to achieve financial success at the expense of some other entity does need to be leavened by a commitment to moral values. If Amazon was a company famous for putting people above profits, I'd be a bit ashamed to get something over on them. But, instead, this is Amazon, famous, at least lately, for treating workers badly. So, sure, if I reliably learned that Amazon lost money on my K3, I'd be happy.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 10-01-2011 at 11:06 AM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 11:27 AM   #22
Dulin's Books
Wizard
Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Dulin's Books ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,806
Karma: 13500000
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Device: Boox PB360 etc etc etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
They have to recoup the R&D costs, though. Even though the Fire seems to be largely based on the Blackberry Playbook hardware, I'm sure that those costs were not insignificant.
i think the estimates of BOM below $200 are correct. but there are more costs as you say and some of them are piled on at the beginning of sales like the r&d on the firmware, the boxing and advertisment costs, the importation costs etc etc. so they may be losing some on the fist "few" but the more they sell the sooner they amortize those residual costs and the later runs will be purely hardware and profit.

for instance Samsung just announced an upgrade to the Tab 7.0 . some people wonder why but its really a no brainer. they have already recouped the costs related to development etc and the minor upgrade costs followed by a longer sales life allows them to increase their profit for the device

Quote:
Originally Posted by molman View Post
Still personally doubt it, but really were unlikely to ever really know so as Kali Yuga said, what does it really matter.
actually i wish more people would have a better understanding of the BOM on all the gadgets. So every time a new device is launched there would be less people expecting a retail cost below any chance of profit.
Dulin's Books is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 11:40 AM   #23
Barty
doofus
Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Barty's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,549
Karma: 13089041
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage
I sense bogosity. The only thing being sold at a loss is the $99 touchpad.
Barty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 11:46 AM   #24
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,898
Karma: 119230421
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Silly to argue about this, no one really knows but internal Amazon people and the manufacturers.

As someone else said, who cares as long as people are not dying to produce them and they are offered at prices like these!
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 07:20 PM   #25
molman
Evangelist
molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 436
Karma: 538958
Join Date: Jul 2011
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulin's Books View Post
actually i wish more people would have a better understanding of the BOM on all the gadgets. So every time a new device is launched there would be less people expecting a retail cost below any chance of profit.
I personally would rather people be more aware of why these products are so cheap in the first place, the origin of some of the base materials and what specific issues this is all creating in the name of feeding western consumption to allow many to go whoo hoo a $200 tablet, how sweet.
molman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 08:03 PM   #26
SteveEisenberg
Grand Sorcerer
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,422
Karma: 43514536
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: near Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by molman View Post
. . . feeding western consumption to allow many to go whoo hoo a $200 tablet, how sweet.
The technology used in the Kindle greatly overlaps that of cell phones, especially if you (as I do) have a 3G model. And according to a slightly dated web site I found, which I think is accurate, at the end of 2010 there will be 3.8 billion mobile subscriptions in the developing world – that’s 73 percent of global subscriptions.

I'm not saying there are zero labor or environmental concerns. But from what I can see, the Foxconn factories manufacturing the Kindle, as well as technically overlapping devices widely used in the non-western world, pay wages above the Chinese standard and are helping to pull the country out of its dire poverty. I was concerned by the articles concerning working conditions at US Amazon warehouses, which seem worse than the local standard. Also there are environmental advantages to these devices as well as concerns. In my case, they have resulted in a big newsprint consumption decrease.

Your profile says that you don't have an eBook device. Where do you draw the line on which electronic devices are and are not moral to own or use? Is paper consumption more moral than rare earth consumption?
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 10:07 PM   #27
OtterBooks
Wizard
OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.OtterBooks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
OtterBooks's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,262
Karma: 2979086
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: Kindle 4, iPad Mini/Retina
Quote:
Originally Posted by molman View Post
I personally would rather people be more aware of why these products are so cheap in the first place, the origin of some of the base materials and what specific issues this is all creating in the name of feeding western consumption to allow many to go whoo hoo a $200 tablet, how sweet.

Please don't remind me that we can't possibly keep pumping out millions and millions of these devices without end. It takes as much water/energy/precious metals to make an iPad as it does to make an automobile. Just leave the worrying to future generations. Haha, suckers.
OtterBooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 10:58 PM   #28
molman
Evangelist
molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.molman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 436
Karma: 538958
Join Date: Jul 2011
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
....Your profile says that you don't have an eBook device. Where do you draw the line on which electronic devices are and are not moral to own or use? Is paper consumption more moral than rare earth consumption?
Without taking this tread on a tangent the short answer is I struggle with it (morally), because yes it is often complex, but I do attempt to be thoughtful and aware to the best of my ability. Do I have electronics in my life, yes - simple fact I'm replying to this says as much. My observation however is more towards the hidden costs of many of these things whether they are social, environmental or otherwise. For me I would prefer awareness here rather than as to the BOM for said devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OtterBooks View Post
Please don't remind me that we can't possibly keep pumping out millions and millions of these devices without end. It takes as much water/energy/precious metals to make an iPad as it does to make an automobile. Just leave the worrying to future generations. Haha, suckers.
It's a little frustrating when we could be smarter about these things.
molman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 06:38 AM   #29
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,898
Karma: 119230421
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
There was a huge discovery or Rare Earth Elements in Afghanistan.

http://www.livescience.com/16315-rar...ghanistan.html
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 08:48 AM   #30
elcreative
Wizard
elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,888
Karma: 5875940
Join Date: Dec 2007
Device: PRS505, 600, 350, 650, Nexus 7, Note III, iPad 4 etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by molman View Post
I personally would rather people be more aware of why these products are so cheap in the first place, the origin of some of the base materials and what specific issues this is all creating in the name of feeding western consumption to allow many to go whoo hoo a $200 tablet, how sweet.
And don't forget that "western" consumption is rapidly heading to the minority with the rise, on the world scene, of the Asian power blocs and their increasing demands for the latest tech... getting tired of the "western" hair shirt brigade and their usual hypocrisy...
elcreative is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adobe comment about Amazon Fire tomsem Kindle Fire 4 10-15-2011 01:45 PM
Amazon is on Fire! Barty Amazon Kindle 19 09-28-2011 12:02 PM
TechCrunch: Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real kjk News 279 09-10-2011 08:35 AM
The true cost of publishing on the Amazon Kindle karunaji News 19 02-20-2011 02:13 PM
Will the Amazon Kindle cost US$50? Alexander Turcic Amazon Kindle 300 12-24-2009 12:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:10 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.