A moral dilemma

[Ron.]

you really can not compare a paper book and an ebook, when you buy a paper book you've bought a physical product. when you buy an ebook you are buying a license, not the actual ebook (.azw file) how often are we told you can't strip the DRM, you can't sell or give away the book because you did not buy the book, you bought a non-transferable license ?

[Cpl Punishment]

Originally Posted by Ron.

you really can not compare a paper book and an ebook, when you buy a paper book you've bought a physical product. when you buy an ebook you are buying a license, not the actual ebook (.azw file) how often are we told you can't strip the DRM, you can't sell or give away the book because you did not buy the book, you bought a non-transferable license ?

It is not a dilemma at all...If you could not STRIP the DRM you would have to buy it again..Not sure why you would want to anyway..If you already read it and its not reference material what would be the point...(rhetorical)...

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Yes. Regardless of the legality, I would agree that morally you're in the right. You paid for the books already. (And yes, you should make good backups of DRM-free versions of the books. Which is where DiapDealer comes in...

If I have a paper book that is falling apart and I want to photo copy it so that I can keep a paper copy of it, that is legit. If I have an e-book version that I remove the DRM so I can read it on a different reader, that is legit.

If my paper copy falls apart and I cannot photocopy it or it burns in a fire and I have not already photocopied it, I don't expect to get the book replaced for free. If I have an e-book and I do not strip the DRM or back up my books and they are lost, I should not expect to be able to replace them for free.

At least, that is my take on it.

[Phogg]

Its a brand new day
And the sun is high

[wannabee]

I'm sure if you contacted the stores you bought books from they would have a record of the books you bought licenses for on your account. Since you still have a license to read those books you need to make a case that you lost the content due to device failure without backup.

That would have to be easier than finding them from god knows where and removing the DRM. Especially considering the quantity you were talking about.

I've heard of this happening at Amzon and when he logged in, all his previous books where there waiting for him.

[ebusinesstutor]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I say you're gonna do what you're gonna do... regardless of what some strangers on the internet might think.

Never count anything other than a DeDRMed file stored on a device/media that you can reach out and touch with your finger as a "backup." And make sure you have at least two such backups.

And a backup should be outside of your home - online or in a safe deposit box. A hard drive backup in your home doesn't help if you have a fire or thieves take the backup drive as well.

[xg4bx]

ethical? meh.

are you hurting anybody? no, they're 1s and 0s you already paid for.

i'm of the mind that if the industry wants to play with words and not give consumers any idea of what they're actually paying for when it comes to licenses and the like, then its all fair game.

thats why i will never fully embrace digital media. i hate the idea that i'm only renting and never truly own anything.

[JeremyR]

Ethical? Maybe not. Moral, I would say yes.

Are you hurting anyone by doing this? No.

Are you getting something without compensating the creator? No, since you've already paid for it once. How is this different than say, you had a perfect memory and simply typed into a file from scratch?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Cpl Punishment

Tough luck...You learned an expensive lesson...Backups

You are no more "entitled" to the Ebook from the library than losing your paper copy then stealing it from elsewhere...

OMG did hell just freeze over. I find myself agreeing with Cpl Punishment.

I agree that the situation is really no different than if your house burned down with all your paper books, would you expect to be able to just go steal them from a bookstore or library to replace them? I don't think so.

The lesson here is: Do Not trust DRM, either Do no Buy books with DRM or Buy only Books you can Strip DRM from and back up properly.

I'm truly sorry for your loss and not sure what I would do in your position, but would like just take the insurance money (hmmm, is there a new business opportunity here?) and begin rebuilding (my library).

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

And a backup should be outside of your home - online or in a safe deposit box. A hard drive backup in your home doesn't help if you have a fire or thieves take the backup drive as well.

Yup. WHS to external USB3 drive, and that encrypted and stored outside the house.

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

If I have a paper book that is falling apart and I want to photo copy it so that I can keep a paper copy of it, that is legit. If I have an e-book version that I remove the DRM so I can read it on a different reader, that is legit.

If my paper copy falls apart and I cannot photocopy it or it burns in a fire and I have not already photocopied it, I don't expect to get the book replaced for free. If I have an e-book and I do not strip the DRM or back up my books and they are lost, I should not expect to be able to replace them for free.

At least, that is my take on it.

Interesting. I'd almost agree with that. I don't think it changes the harm argument, but it does make a strong case for the "you don't protect it, you lose" argument. This sounds like a good single malt discussion...

[Angst]

Originally Posted by kennyc

OMG did hell just freeze over. I find myself agreeing with Cpl Punishment.

I agree that the situation is really no different than if your house burned down with all your paper books, would you expect to be able to just go steal them from a bookstore or library to replace them? I don't think so.

The lesson here is: Do Not trust DRM, either Do no Buy books with DRM or Buy only Books you can Strip DRM from and back up properly.

I'm truly sorry for your loss and not sure what I would do in your position, but would like just take the insurance money (hmmm, is there a new business opportunity here?) and begin rebuilding (my library).

Kenny, if I steal a book from the library, I am depriving other people of reading the book, and the library of their book. In this case, I would would be returning the book to the library. No one would be harmed.

What is this insurance money you speak of? Is there a company that will insure content on my home computer?

[Crusader]

Originally Posted by kennyc

The lesson here is: Do Not trust DRM, either Do no Buy books with DRM or Buy only Books you can Strip DRM from and back up properly.

I'm truly sorry for your loss and not sure what I would do in your position, but would like just take the insurance money (hmmm, is there a new business opportunity here?) and begin rebuilding (my library).

Not really a great argument there.

The publishers add DRM to the ebook file in order to prevent you from copying it and making "backups" since they only sell you a license. So the publisher should be liable for replacing the ebook or ensuring that you have access to the licensed content you've paid for.

Of course that's in an ideal world, which this one is not!

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Angst

..

What is this insurance money you speak of? Is there a company that will insure content on my home computer?

That's what I'm saying we can start a scamInsurance Business and insure hard drive data.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by wannabee

I'm sure if you contacted the stores you bought books from they would have a record of the books you bought licenses for on your account. Since you still have a license to read those books you need to make a case that you lost the content due to device failure without backup.

That would have to be easier than finding them from god knows where and removing the DRM. Especially considering the quantity you were talking about.

I've heard of this happening at Amzon and when he logged in, all his previous books where there waiting for him.

I tried this with Fictionwise when Random House pulled several titles I had purchased from Fictionwise. I appealed to Fictionwise, several times. I appealed to Random House. Neither would give me access to the ebooks I had paid for. They still appear in my Fictionwise Bookshelf on my account, but when I try to download them there is an error message.