Should Libraries Charge for eBooks?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Depends.

There are 4 subscriptions.

>>> snip <<<

And ebooks, as I said, not a trace....

Thanks for the info. It's interesting to see how other libraries around the world charge for services.

Sorry about your lack of ebooks. I really have to count my blessings in that I have access to three of the largest ebook libraries in the world. I take it for granted all too often.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Ryvyan

I don't think libraries should charge for e-books as there are no potential losses of physical books involved.

I have not tried borrowing from my local library's ebooks collection, but apparently it's quite comprehensive (and free).

But when hours and services are cut back, that inevitably leads to content cutbacks in order to provide an even balance. I'd rather pay an additional fee for an eCard so that e-content is always increasing and never decreasing.

[apbschmitz]

What an interesting discussion, in that it never occurred to me that libraries would charge (beyond taxes) for access to content. Where I live (St. Paul, Minnesota, US) it would be absolute political suicide to suggest that anyone pay for access to library materials. There's a presumption that it's like police or fire protection — a service where it's of no significance whether you're rich or poor. Everyone is treated the same. Currently eBooks are available for free via Overdrive at the city libraries.

Of course the poor are abused in a million different ways here, but not at the library.

[abookreader]

You actually might be surprised to see how many of our fixed income "olders" come into the library with the digital readers they've received as gifts.

We were discussing a "Donate your Old Reader" drive at the last Friends meeting to try and get more hardware into the library. I think we have 8 Sony readers right now and maybe 5 nooks and they are constantly checked out. We also have a download station at the library for those without internet access and several staff members trained to actually use it. I can't remember exactly but that was either donated by Overdrive or paid for by a grant. We've also been discussing adding Kindles to the mix as well as the viability of establishing a library Amazon purchase account.

Increasing Overdrive fees do seem to be the big topic of the moment. There is a huge interest in digital lending because it is getting really expensive to send the inter-library loan truck all over the place.

[anamardoll]

I think libraries should be free to use, but I'd happily pay higher taxes to support them. I'm not sure how to count that vote -- my feeling is that libraries should be well-supported by the community for overall community health and not simply a "charged burden" on the people who use them.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by abookreader

We were discussing a "Donate your Old Reader" drive at the last Friends meeting to try and get more hardware into the library. I think we have 8 Sony readers right now and maybe 5 nooks and they are constantly checked out. We also have a download station at the library for those without internet access and several staff members trained to actually use it. I can't remember exactly but that was either donated by Overdrive or paid for by a grant. We've also been discussing adding Kindles to the mix as well as the viability of establishing a library Amazon purchase account.

Excellent; I like that. It's a great way to recycle older ereaders.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I think libraries should be free to use, but I'd happily pay higher taxes to support them. I'm not sure how to count that vote -- my feeling is that libraries should be well-supported by the community for overall community health and not simply a "charged burden" on the people who use them.

That's just it, tax support is dwindling; and even though you're willing to pay more, it won't happen. That's why I suggested a user fee for high end services. I pay taxes to support our National Parks, yet I still have to pay a user fee in order to access them.

User fees are more palatable for taxpayers; especially those who don't utilize those services. As such, they'll be easier to pass than a general tax increase.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

That's just it, tax support is dwindling; and even though you're willing to pay more, it won't happen. That's why I suggested a user fee for high end services. I pay taxes to support our National Parks, yet I still have to pay a user fee in order to access them.

User fees are more palatable for taxpayers; especially those who don't utilize those services. As such, they'll be easier to pass than a general tax increase.

Well, I realize my "more taxes" isn't going to get passed, so I see your point, but even so I'm not really in favor of charging people who use the library. I see it as anathema to the point of a library (or as I see it) which is to grow the health of the community by offering information freely to those who couldn't not otherwise easily access it.

I think eReaders will very soon not be a luxury, and I think restricting eBooks to those who can pay even a minimal fee is not good for the health of the library.

I guess if the ONLY alternative is to close the library entirely (and I think this is a bit of a straw argument at that point), then I would be in favor of a "Library Patron" subscription service where you could pay a yearly fee and in exchange... X would happen. More than the usual limit of books out at once, maybe?

But, no, I am not in favor of charging all patrons equally. And I am in favor of higher taxes, whether it's politically feasible or not. I'm an American who is tired of hearing that all taxes have to be cut because UNDERPANTS GNOMES.

[speakingtohe]

In Canada libraries do not charge a borrowing fee, but some charge fees for holds. Vancouver (not sure if this is current) charged 50 cents per hold after the first 10 holds placed.
North Vancouver charges nothing for holds, but charges you if you don't cancel or pick up a book you put on hold.
Both seem reasonable to me.

I would have no objection for a small fee for library books as long as it was used to buy more books and not an excuse to cut government funding. Especially if it was done in such a way that lower income families were exempt from the fee.

Helen

[pagansoul]

I can borrow my ebooks for my library (Gwinnet Public Library, Georgia, USA) on-line, no charge. I have only used it twice as I tend to use the free internet sites the most. I have hundreds of downloaded pulp novels that I have to still read. I'm lucky to have cheap taste when it comes to leisure reading. I don't even look at a best seller list.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Technically, they aren't free in the US either. They're supported by tax dollars.

How much do you have to pay for a library card?

That depends on where you are. I live in a small town of less than 4000.

Our library is a private foundation, not a government entity, and we finance it with donations and fundraisers just like the volunteer firedepartment.

I feed it a steady stream of history and political books. Other people feed it novels (my fiction purchases are digital obviously) and it does pretty well.

Answering the question - libraries should not charge.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Well, I realize my "more taxes" isn't going to get passed, so I see your point, but even so I'm not really in favor of charging people who use the library. I see it as anathema to the point of a library (or as I see it) which is to grow the health of the community by offering information freely to those who couldn't not otherwise easily access it.

I think eReaders will very soon not be a luxury, and I think restricting eBooks to those who can pay even a minimal fee is not good for the health of the library.

I want e-content to expand and not be sacrificed on the altar of expediency due to a budget crunch.

As I said earlier, no one would be denied. Reduced or no fees can easily be implemented for low income patrons.

[Ryvyan]

I realise that the discussion is about e-books, which to me is just another copy of a physical book that has other copies in some library branches. Maybe I should not have explained away not charging for e-books by saying there are no physical loss because it is a poor way of answering the essence of the question raised in this thread.

The truth is I don't believe in restricting book circulation, regardless of whether it exists in physical or electronic form. Even if people who want to access e-books would have to be relatively well-off to own a device on which to read them, I still do not believe in restricting content knowledge.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

But when hours and services are cut back, that inevitably leads to content cutbacks in order to provide an even balance. I'd rather pay an additional fee for an eCard so that e-content is always increasing and never decreasing.

Haha I realise that I should have explained how the local library board works and local culture is like before moving forward. I may complain plenty about my country and the government (like almost every citizen), but I'm quite happy with our government in terms of their support for encouraging reading, and there are plenty of reference and public libraries to go around in my tiny country.

There is actually free library membership for all local citizens, and since primary school education has been made compulsory since a couple of decades (?) ago, most school-going students would have registered an account with the local library board (for free).

Adults can also register if not yet done so, and since it does not require you to do anything other than to bring your identity card, turn up and register at the library, it does not restrict library use across socio-economic background. Basic membership is lifetime with no need for renewal. There are also libraries in all school (or almost all? I'd be surprised if there isn't) where students can check out books.

I work in a school which bought Kindles (no support here) to encourage reading. Students can't actually borrow the Kindle out of the school but they are free to browse through the selection of e-books and stay in the library to read (something I find conflicting but still).


p/s: I'd gladly pay membership money for additional services but I have never needed those services, and the library board does not need my money to remain free and available for other socio-economic groups.

I used to pay extra (SGD 21 annually) when they introduced the DVD borrowing, which I assumed was to test interest of public. Two years later, the collection expanded incredibly because the board saw the interest, and now people with basic membership are also able to borrow them. The privilege of paying for upgraded membership right now is to be able to borrow more items at one go.

Based on the above, I do not foresee a problem in my local library board when it comes to content being compromised as a result of budget crunches. I suspect that the budget for our libraries are so incredible it can probably feed an entire nation.


Sorry for the looooonnng post.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I want e-content to expand and not be sacrificed on the altar of expediency due to a budget crunch.

As I said earlier, no one would be denied. Reduced or no fees can easily be implemented for low income patrons.

Yeah, but I don't want a bunch of hoops where a patron has to prove that they are low-income. Hence my "buy-in" option for richer patrons to choose to use.

I think starting from a position that "without charging patrons, e-content will not expand" is probably assuming facts not in evidence, but if those are the only two options available, then I suppose the point is rather moot.....

If charging patrons is the only way libraries will survive, they won't survive for very long. At least, not in my opinion. Our local library already has a hard enough time getting patrons to realize they even exist, without suddenly becoming a luxury (i.e., paid) rental service.

No one is going to go to the trouble in my area to gather the necessary paperwork to prove they are low income. It's sort of the Matilda problem, too -- if only the child in the family wants to read, how are they to get Mommy and Daddy to fill out the proper forms? Etc.

[Andrew H.]

I don't think libraries should charge for e-content.

First, philosophically I think that libraries should be tax supported and free to patrons (and $150 of my property taxes go directly to my library).

Second, charging fees would inevitably harm lower income patrons. (And it would *not* be easy to allow them to get the books for free - you would need to set up income standards, first of all...and then you would need some sort of proof of income, and then you would need to devote bureaucratic time to making sure that the tax forms or whatever they submitted justified the lower fees. And then you would need some way of preventing individuals allowed to check out e-books for reduced fees from allowing *other* individuals to use their library cards for free e-books. This kind of fraud would probably be impossible to stop unless you required patrons to come to the library in person with ID...which sort of goes against the e-book idea anyway.

So either you charge no one, or you charge everyone.

But if you decide to charge people, how do you do that - do they have a CC on file with the library that is charged per book? What if they don't have a CC?

It looks to me like money collected for checking out e-books might not be enough to pay the expenses of collecting the money in the first place.