Kobo Touch review: 'flawed (at best) or nightmarish (at worst)' - Page 2

charleski · 06-17-2011, 05:21 PM

This is what ****es me off about these crappy reviews. They focus on the bells-and-whistles or on how the UI works, but fail to mention critical stuff like how well the device supports the ePub standard, how it handles embedded fonts, PDFs etc. These gadget sites can't see past the shinies to report on the core functionality. Being able to handle hyperlinks is certainly a vital ability for me.

Sil_liS · 06-17-2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

Mine, from Teleread, June 12..

Thanks!
It sounds like the problems come from the software part, which would mean that the kobo could get major improvements with software updates. The only one that could be terminally bad is the touch screen sensitivity. Unless, of course, this is caused by the software again, and you get something like the touch sensors going to sleep if they don't see action for a certain amount of time.

But the reason why I asked about female reviewers in the first place was because of the comment in the article linked in the OP about the narrow margins and how the guy's thumbs would spill on the screen. Did you have this problem?

charleski · 06-17-2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

But the reason why I asked about female reviewers in the first place was because of the comment in the article linked in the OP about the narrow margins and how the guy's thumbs would spill on the screen. Did you have this problem?

I think the individual variability in thumb-width probably overwhelms any significant difference between the sexes. A study in 1990 found that thumbs of both sexes roughly subtend the same arc at arm's length*, though that may reflect differences in arm length.

A lot will depend on whether you hold it with your thumb rolling out and away from the screen, but personally I've found it easier to hold ereaders with my thumb on the 'chin' at the bottom and my index finger extended at 90degrees along the side to steady it.

* Yes, Science has an answer for everything, even the crazy stuff...

corona · 06-18-2011, 02:29 AM

Ah, yes, but those were undergraduate thumbs!

carpetmojo · 06-18-2011, 06:04 AM

Are either the Kobo or Nook available in Europe - more specifically, UK ?

HarryT · 06-18-2011, 06:07 AM

The nook is only sold in the US. The Kobo is sold internationally, but I don't know if anyone in the UK actually has it physically in stock. You should certainly be able to order one directly from Kobo, though.

SensualPoet · 06-18-2011, 09:52 AM

This thumb thing is a red herring. Some people hate the Kindle 3 navigator pad ... but after you train yourself, it's very efficient. Same with Kobo's Touch screen.

Personally, I tap, I don't swipe ... and it works very well. Left side screen tap to reverse a page, right tap (including with the tip of a thumb) to go to the next page, mid-screen tap to bring up a navigation bar on the bottom which allows access to the home page, table of contents, bookmarks, next chapter, font changes .. and a scroll bar to drag pages forward or back.

Most folks who do gadget reviews base their comments on first impressions: they rarely "live" with a device for a while to get its true merits (and challenges). And some gadget reviewers have agendas: they might be especially biased toward a particular platform / brand, or, really much worse, try to make a gadget into something it was not designed for.

Ereaders are a particular niche device serving a particular sets of needs. We are fortunate that there are currently choices in the market where real consumers have access to mainstream produced devices at reasonable prices ... that deliver the goods.

The e-ink devices from Kobo, Kindle, Nook, Sony ... each has its merits and trade-offs of features but all of them deliver a pretty sound ereading experience and have evolved from one iteration to the next adding perceptible value. And, geez, these devices -- unlike smartphones and tablets -- are pretty inexpensive starting under $150 for a full featured current model device. And, unlike your smartphone and tablet, an ereader "pays for itself" in the real savings you enjoy through content purchases over the physical alternatives.

So calling the Kobo (or Nook, or Sony or Kindle) "nightmarish" or "flawed at best" does not reflect the experience of the (tens of) millions who have embraced these devices in the past couple of years.

ficbot · 06-18-2011, 12:59 PM

I don't recall a particular issue with the thumbs, but I did notice that the tap did not always register, and someone in another thread suggested that it could be from your non-page-turning thumb over-hanging somewhat and interfering with the IR sensors. I don't know if this is the case or not.

For me, I found that there were some more advanced features I required which I could not get on the Kobo (e.g. multi-language dictionary support) so I was happy to give the device up to its intended owner (I was setting it up for my boss). I do think it's a very solid device for its intended general-user market. I don't think that I am a 'general user' given my needs, however, so this was not the dream device for me. But I respect what Kobo is doing and think that they are on the right track.

Nanopr · 06-18-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

. But I respect what Kobo is doing and think that they are on the right track.

I totally agree with you. Taking on Amazon, B&N and Sony is no easy challenge. I also happen to think they have a very solid business strategy and they are consistently moving in the rigth direction. I wish them success.

By the way, is it my perception or is Kobo the only company actively interacting with customers on Mobileread forums? That has me pretty impressed.

Sil_liS · 06-18-2011, 01:54 PM

The thing with the thumb is indeed a matter of training. But it does bring the problem that people who are used to a different device might not enjoy the experience, and decide to use another device.

The male vs. female perspective doesn't come only from the size of the thumb, but how we are used to handle objects. There is this whole "be delicate" thing that my mother tried to teach me, that I can use now with touch screens.

There is also the aspect of the length of the fingers. Ideally you should be able to reach both left, right and center of the screen with your dominant hand to be able to easily use the reader one-handed. And for this, narrower margins help, especially for women.

SensualPoet · 06-19-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanopr

By the way, is it my perception or is Kobo the only company actively interacting with customers on Mobileread forums? That has me pretty impressed.

That's not a perception -- it's a great strength and one of the reasons Kobo has been able to fix genuine issues quickly. It's not just one customer service rep who happens to like Kobo and is filling in for the company: Kobo apparently has a corporate policy and has assigned multiple folks to keep an eye on the forums here and post meaningful updates regularly. Best of all, it is the developer group which is doing the monitoring, not sales and marketing.

I don't believe any other device has such a presence here or anywhere on a non-corporate run forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

The male vs. female perspective doesn't come only from the size of the thumb, but how we are used to handle objects. There is this whole "be delicate" thing that my mother tried to teach me, that I can use now with touch screens.

LOL. Perhaps I got too much nurture gene in my otherwise male shell in that case. I wonder how well Mikhail Baryshnikov does with page turns?

coinín · 06-19-2011, 10:39 AM

What I see from a lot of the people trying out the touch @ work is that they think they need to really mash on that screen with their fingers to get it to work. I think they're used to pressure-sensitive touchscreens, but this is a little different.

You don't need to press it hard, just touch it precisely. Once you get the hang of it, it flows nicely.

Also... having one that had a firmware upgrade sitting next to one that hadn't really emphasized the importance of doing the upgrades. It was noticeably faster and more responsive than the one right out of the box. I find myself wondering how many reviewers actually did an upgrade before reviewing.

HarryT · 06-19-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coinín

What I see from a lot of the people trying out the touch @ work is that they think they need to really mash on that screen with their fingers to get it to work. I think they're used to pressure-sensitive touchscreens, but this is a little different.

You don't need to press it hard, just touch it precisely. Once you get the hang of it, it flows nicely.

If it's anything like the Sony, you don't actually need to touch the screen at all; the infra-red beams are a mm or so above the screen surface.

Poppaea · 06-19-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanopr

By the way, is it my perception or is Kobo the only company actively interacting with customers on Mobileread forums? That has me pretty impressed.

Just your perception. Pocketbook guys are here on MR all the time.

Sil_liS · 06-19-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppaea

Just your perception. Pocketbook guys are here on MR all the time.

Yes, but they just go to the pocketbook section.

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06-17-2011, 05:21 PM	#16
charleski Wizard Posts: 1,196 Karma: 1281258 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505	This is what ****es me off about these crappy reviews. They focus on the bells-and-whistles or on how the UI works, but fail to mention critical stuff like how well the device supports the ePub standard, how it handles embedded fonts, PDFs etc. These gadget sites can't see past the shinies to report on the core functionality. Being able to handle hyperlinks is certainly a vital ability for me.

06-18-2011, 02:29 AM	#19
corona Addict Posts: 324 Karma: 25168 Join Date: May 2010 Device: kobo	Ah, yes, but those were undergraduate thumbs!

06-18-2011, 06:04 AM	#20
carpetmojo Wizard Posts: 3,117 Karma: 9269999 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: UK Device: Sony- T3, PRS650, 350, T1/2/3, Paperwhite, Fire 8.9,Samsung Tab S 10.5	Are either the Kobo or Nook available in Europe - more specifically, UK ?

06-18-2011, 06:07 AM	#21
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,556 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The nook is only sold in the US. The Kobo is sold internationally, but I don't know if anyone in the UK actually has it physically in stock. You should certainly be able to order one directly from Kobo, though.

06-18-2011, 09:52 AM	#22
SensualPoet Wizard Posts: 2,302 Karma: 2607151 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo	This thumb thing is a red herring. Some people hate the Kindle 3 navigator pad ... but after you train yourself, it's very efficient. Same with Kobo's Touch screen. Personally, I tap, I don't swipe ... and it works very well. Left side screen tap to reverse a page, right tap (including with the tip of a thumb) to go to the next page, mid-screen tap to bring up a navigation bar on the bottom which allows access to the home page, table of contents, bookmarks, next chapter, font changes .. and a scroll bar to drag pages forward or back. Most folks who do gadget reviews base their comments on first impressions: they rarely "live" with a device for a while to get its true merits (and challenges). And some gadget reviewers have agendas: they might be especially biased toward a particular platform / brand, or, really much worse, try to make a gadget into something it was not designed for. Ereaders are a particular niche device serving a particular sets of needs. We are fortunate that there are currently choices in the market where real consumers have access to mainstream produced devices at reasonable prices ... that deliver the goods. The e-ink devices from Kobo, Kindle, Nook, Sony ... each has its merits and trade-offs of features but all of them deliver a pretty sound ereading experience and have evolved from one iteration to the next adding perceptible value. And, geez, these devices -- unlike smartphones and tablets -- are pretty inexpensive starting under $150 for a full featured current model device. And, unlike your smartphone and tablet, an ereader "pays for itself" in the real savings you enjoy through content purchases over the physical alternatives. So calling the Kobo (or Nook, or Sony or Kindle) "nightmarish" or "flawed at best" does not reflect the experience of the (tens of) millions who have embraced these devices in the past couple of years.

06-18-2011, 12:59 PM	#23
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	I don't recall a particular issue with the thumbs, but I did notice that the tap did not always register, and someone in another thread suggested that it could be from your non-page-turning thumb over-hanging somewhat and interfering with the IR sensors. I don't know if this is the case or not. For me, I found that there were some more advanced features I required which I could not get on the Kobo (e.g. multi-language dictionary support) so I was happy to give the device up to its intended owner (I was setting it up for my boss). I do think it's a very solid device for its intended general-user market. I don't think that I am a 'general user' given my needs, however, so this was not the dream device for me. But I respect what Kobo is doing and think that they are on the right track.

06-18-2011, 01:54 PM	#25
Sil_liS Wizard Posts: 4,896 Karma: 33602910 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+	The thing with the thumb is indeed a matter of training. But it does bring the problem that people who are used to a different device might not enjoy the experience, and decide to use another device. The male vs. female perspective doesn't come only from the size of the thumb, but how we are used to handle objects. There is this whole "be delicate" thing that my mother tried to teach me, that I can use now with touch screens. There is also the aspect of the length of the fingers. Ideally you should be able to reach both left, right and center of the screen with your dominant hand to be able to easily use the reader one-handed. And for this, narrower margins help, especially for women.

06-19-2011, 10:39 AM	#27
coinín dust bunny Posts: 158 Karma: 512427 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo WiFi, Sony PRS-650, BlackBerry PlayBook	What I see from a lot of the people trying out the touch @ work is that they think they need to really mash on that screen with their fingers to get it to work. I think they're used to pressure-sensitive touchscreens, but this is a little different. You don't need to press it hard, just touch it precisely. Once you get the hang of it, it flows nicely. Also... having one that had a firmware upgrade sitting next to one that hadn't really emphasized the importance of doing the upgrades. It was noticeably faster and more responsive than the one right out of the box. I find myself wondering how many reviewers actually did an upgrade before reviewing.

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