Strategies for reading the classics?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Some classics are classics because they are great reads. Others are classics because they were first at doing x, when x is commonly employed in more modern, more refined writing.

Writing evolves over time, just like any other technology created by humans. The Model T Ford is a historically important car-- but that doesn't mean that some modern cars aren't an improvement in almost every way. For instance, Dickens is fine, Trollope, I don't believe I've ever heard of. But Austen? I'd rather spend my time reading a telephone directory.

Your loss, to my mind. Many people seem to think Jane Austen's novels are dull because "nothing happens". But that's missing the whole point; they are about people, not "things". "Emma" is my personal favourite, although "Pride and Prejudice" is extremely witty. All 6 of her novels are fantastic reads, but you have to "get into" them and not (as you rightly say) expect them to read like a modern novel - they aren't.

Anthony Trollope was, by the way, one of the greatest 19th century English authors.

But, when it comes down to it, we all have different tastes in these things.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Your loss, to my mind. Many people seem to think Jane Austen's novels are dull because "nothing happens". But that's missing the whole point; they are about people, not "things".

Yes, Austen is about following the social lives of the reasonably well-off and vapid-- who they are dating, what parties they are attending, the gossip they have about each other, etc. Austen is Reality TV before there was TV.

I don't care about what is happening to the Paris Hilton of today, and I don't care what happened to the Paris Hiltons of the 1800s.

[Poppaea]

There is a lot to say for reading them chronologically: You will understand the "insider jokes". Classics tend to refer to other classics, you will understand more and have a better reading experience, when you are able to understand those references. A description like: "She was his Sancho Pansa." Will only tell you something about the person, when you know your Don Quijote.

But I do advocate to read only those books you are interested in. Life is too short to turn a pleasure into a plague.

Then there is the Bible. Most storys told are told in the Bible. It is not as vital to know the Bible for reading the classics as it is to know it for understanding old paintings, however it is nice to know it.

There are a few books you'd like to know on your way for their influence on other authors. Have a look at the curriculum of a university for an overview.

One of the most influencial books ever and one I think is highly entertaining is ‘The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman’ by Laurence Sterne. You will find one of the finest copies ever made in our library. It was made by Patricia. The book itself has an interesting story, which you might like to read, if so, google it. It is said to have been the favourite book of Goethe and a couple of other very famous authors. Read it yourself and you'll know why.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Yes, Austen is about following the social lives of the reasonably well-off and vapid-- who they are dating, what parties they are attending, the gossip they have about each other, etc. Austen is Reality TV before there was TV.

I don't care about what is happening to the Paris Hilton of today, and I don't care what happened to the Paris Hiltons of the 1800s.

I would argue personally that Emma Woodhouse is a considerably more interesting person than Paris Hilton, but it's your choice, of course.

[Poppaea]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Yes, Austen is about following the social lives of the reasonably well-off and vapid-- who they are dating, what parties they are attending, the gossip they have about each other, etc. Austen is Reality TV before there was TV.

I don't care about what is happening to the Paris Hilton of today, and I don't care what happened to the Paris Hiltons of the 1800s.

This just shows one should never talk about things one does know the sightest bit about! A statement like this sets your intellect on par for me with the intellect of Paris hilton. How Austen handled slavery in Mansfield Park is anything but society gossip.

[DMB]

Thanks for posting the link. Of course, that is just a list of your favourites. It doesn't show what classics you have read but didn't get on with. I think you might consider exploring various aspects of the classics that were missed out in your degree, and of course, looking beyond literature to such things as philosophy and history.

If you don't know them well, you might be interested in exploring some of the great Ancient Greek dramatists. You don't say you know the language, so that would have to be in translation. I suppose starting with a couple of background books, one on the Greek myths and one on Greek drama would be helpful before exploring the plays themselves. If you can get to see theatre productions that is the best way of becoming acquainted with them. The next best thing may be audio versions. I have found that that is a very good way of exploring things like the Iliad and the Odyssey as well. The fascinating thing about the classical Greek drama is that it can be so immediate and speak to us today, even after two-and-a-half thousand years and yet at the same time embody beliefs and practices that are totally alien. The basic idea of tragedy stems from this source.

Obviously, if you didn't do Old English, you won't be able to read Beowulf, but you could enjoy a good translation, such as that by Seamus Heaney. Since you can read Shakespeare, you could slip back slightly further in time by reading Spenser and Malory. Malory is great fun, and you don't have to be an English specialist to cope. My son, whose degree was in engineering and computer science, managed to read Le Morte d'Arthur with no trouble at all. You can also get an excellent recording of it if you prefer to listen. I love Chaucer, but there is no doubt that his language makes him a bit harder to read. You really do need glossaries to understand every word. Depending on whether you can cope with Chaucer or not you might try other Middle English texts like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight or Piers Plowman. The former in particular is much harder than Chaucer because of the dialect.

You might also consider reading some of Shakespeare's contemporaries among the dramatists, in particular Marlowe and Jonson. Of course, as with Shakespeare, it helps enormously to be able to see theatre productions of the plays. I don't know what sort of access you might have to classical theatre. I have been fortunate over the years in being able to see Royal Shakespeare Company and National Theatre productions of almost all of Shakespeare's plays and several of Marlowe's, Jonson's, and Tourneur, Webster and Beaumont and Fletcher. the Shakespearian period was very rich in excellent dramatists. The more one reads, the easier it becomes to read more.

Please let me know what you think of my suggestions. If they are helpful, I'll continue with another few years' worth of reading.

[Poppaea]

Saw your second post just now, ficbot. The Bible in one year is no good idea. It will make you read the boring stuff, like the zillion laws (if your wife has an uncle that has a stepmother who is married to.... blabla). Try to find one that is chronologically or try to find something that has only the big stories.

[maianhvk]

Originally Posted by ficbot

Also, you should read chronologically. As in, start with the BCE era, and finish ALL of it before you are allowed to move on.

what?? look at your list. I'm not a native speaker so let's pretend I've never read any of the books on your list. I have to read at least 20 books to get the jist. now I really, really sympathize with you, and understand why "ALL" must be in capital.

(oh and thanks for the list by the way)

And if you haven't read the Bible yet, do that first or else you'll be screwed later.

Second problem is that I'm not religious and I cannot read the Bible without feeling completely awkward. I just know some famous names and the most basic, general ideas it gives out and that's all. If reading Bible is a must, then classics are out of my league.

And finally, understand that all of this is futile anyway because it's all about dead white guys and unless you read women and Hispanic writers, you lack a true global perspective.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'dead white guys'?
(Because I lack that global perspective, I know)

Originally Posted by ficbot

I have just started 'Inferno' by Dante---the Harvard Classics one was very dense and flowery, but a book I'm reading had an excerpt that was very different, so I found a different translation (the Longfellow one) and am finding it better going. I also picked up the Bible in One Year book for $2.99 for the Kindle.

'Bible in one year'? oh no...

Remember to post your review on Divine comedy. I've been supposed to read it for years

[SeaBookGuy]

I can only do classics (Dickens, Trollope, etc.) as audiobooks -- in print they'd be too daunting. Remember that those were serialized back then; the original readers weren't presented with tomes.

[ficbot]

So, anybody want to suggest a chronological bible? :-)

I've certainly read large parts of it, I went to a Jewish school as a child. But of course, that was only the Hebrew Bible. I have shockingly enough never read the new testament. As I recall, last time I tried to read the bible all the way through, I downloaded a freebie King James version off Project Gutenberg and did just find until Leviticus, when I started running into long chapters consisting of nothing but lists of who begat who. I figured the bible in one year people would probably break that up so you weren't hit with all of it at once.

DMB, you have some great suggestions. I have so little knowledge (beyond an abstract idea at perhaps the Wikipedia level) that I don't really know where to start with those. Maybe with Homer? I think I find the essay format more dull than a play or poem or novel. I have bookmarked this thread and will be downloading all suggestions to at least sample :-) Don't worry about making too many suggestions. I am a fast reader anyway, and I am loving this conversation. I'd love to hear what else you recommend.

[Poppaea]

Homer is great fun! The Ilias is actually a book against the war and the Odyssee a giant adventure.

There are harmonies of the NT. The story of the Gospels are overlapping and a harmony will save you lots of time.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I really can't agree with you. Classics are classics BECAUSE they are great books. Dickens, Trollope, Austen, etc, are all fantastic reads.

It's so subjective to taste, though. I like "Sense and Sensibility", but to be honest I HATED "Pride and Prejudice". I don't much care for Austen in general. Or the Brontes, for that matter.

I was an odd English major -- the other girls were reading Austen and I was reading "The Satanic Verses"..... they're both classics, but the audience overlap Venn diagram isn't particularly large, I'd wager.

My vote would be to read what you like and like what you read. Life is too short for anything else.

Yes, Austen is about following the social lives of the reasonably well-off and vapid-- who they are dating, what parties they are attending, the gossip they have about each other, etc. Austen is Reality TV before there was TV.

I love this. I mean, Austen is deeper than that, but you definitely have to be willing to wade through The Lifestyles Of The Relatively Well-Off And Rather Vapid in order to get to the deep bits. And there are plenty of other deep books that don't make you wade through that, if it's not your thing.

[anamardoll]

Also,

- And finally, understand that all of this is futile anyway because it's all about dead white guys and unless you read women and Hispanic writers, you lack a true global perspective.

I don't want to ignore this because it's a valuable point. I'd recommend picking up Abrams' anthology of American Literature (Volume 2) and reading the short stories. There are some INCREDIBLE American short stories by women and minorities that they don't teach in school because then they wouldn't have time for Moby Dick and Red Badge of Courage. (Heaven forbid.)

If you're really interested in reading the classics, I'd say to alternate out the Rich White Men with some different perspectives. Rick White Women is a start, but maybe look a little deeper than that, hmm? I also would NOT recommend reading the Bible without a good textual analysis -- Robert Price may be a good resource there, imho.

[Poppaea]

How about "The Tennant of Wildfell Hall"? Not even this Bronte? It is so about emancipation and it is a good read, too, IMO.

[encapuchado]

"Thanks for
...
Seneca and Lucan, from Córdoba,
who before the Spanish language
wrote all the Spanish literature,
...
"
--- Jorge Luis Borges (Another poem of gifts)

I love ancient literature (not necessarily "classics"). Two resources in English are http://www.the-orb.net/ and http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook.html.