What books are allowed on the new Kobo & B&N readers?

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The original poster claimed that "the Kindle is limited to reading books that you buy from the Amazon bookstore"; that is simply untrue.

I think it's clear from the rest of the OP that he's specifically talking about the Big Four bookstores - B&N, Amazon, Sony, Kobo.

But, yes, you're right - if he buys non-DRM'd mobi books somewhere, he can read those on a Kindle.

He seems to be seeking a single-source seller/device that will provide backwards compatibility with his existing library, and (a) there is no "single-source" non-DRM mobi store that I know of where you can get access to the majority of, say, NYT bestsellers, and (b) Amazon will not provide backwards compatibility with his library unless he strips the DRM off his Sony books.

So, there's that.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

It seems odd that B&N would hobble their book store like this. I had a vague memory that I needed to never buy books from B&N but I'd forgotten the reason. It seems counter-intuitive for B&N to allow nook owners can buy books from B&N's competitors but prevent owners of other devices from buying books from B&N.

Thanks to all of you. I may have known all this at one time but frankly, it seems unnecessarily confusing. It seems like the publishers ought to get together and insist on some standardization. It must harm them as well as us readers.

Thanks again.

I'm not sure that B&N meant for this to happen - way back when they came out with their flavor of Adobe DRM, the scuttlebutt was that the B&N flavor would be flowed to other devices that also supported Adobe DRM.

This hasn't happened for reasons that I can't begin to guess at but it might be because Kobo and Sony don't consider reading B&N books a high priority.

But, yes, you are right - the practical upshot is that B&N is left with a device that can read lots of formats, but a store that sells a very limiting one.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

It seems odd that B&N would hobble their book store like this. I had a vague memory that I needed to never buy books from B&N but I'd forgotten the reason. It seems counter-intuitive for B&N to allow nook owners can buy books from B&N's competitors but prevent owners of other devices from buying books from B&N.

B&N allows any vendor, with an Adobe mobile Digital Editions license, to read B&N DRM. Kobo has all the required source code to do this, and could turn it on with almost no additional software development work required (it most likely took more work to turn it off). They don't allow B&N ebooks for marketing reasons, e.g. perhaps because they don't regard the US as a large market for them (or because their contract with Borders does not allow them to do so).

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

B&N allows any vendor, with an Adobe mobile Digital Editions license, to read B&N DRM. Kobo has all the required source code to do this, and could turn it on with almost no additional software development work required (it most likely took more work to turn it off). They don't allow B&N ebooks for marketing reasons, e.g. perhaps because they don't regard the US as a large market for them (or because their contract with Borders does not allow them to do so).

I agree, but at this point B&N has to be aware that their special flavor of DRM is limiting the number of devices that can play their books. Whether or not it's Kobo's fault for not utilizing the required source code is a moot point - if B&N is losing sales over this issue (and I have no research to indicate they are/aren't - this is hypothetical), then the onus is on B&n to change things.

(Similarly, if Kobo was losing sales over this issue, THEY should change things. But I suspect most people will see this as B&N's fault for wanting their special flavor of DRM in the first place.)

A good question is why B&N isn't changing their special DRM to plain-vanilla-Adobe DRM. Their devices can already read it and it's rapidly becoming if not the industry standard, then at least more industry standard than B&N's flavor.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

A good question is why B&N isn't changing their special DRM to plain-vanilla-Adobe DRM. Their devices can already read it and it's rapidly becoming if not the industry standard, then at least more industry standard than B&N's flavor.

B&N does not pay per ebook royalties to Adobe, which gives them a competitive advantage over Kobo and the other Adobe clients. Amazon also owns their DRM, which is why everyone assumes that they would use their own DRM rather than Adobe's if they ever decide to support ePub on their devices and apps.

[JSWolf]

The nook (new & old) uses ePub. The DRM used is two different ones. B&N has their own flavor DRM that is used for eBooks bought via B&N. But the nook also supports the same ePub DRM that Sony, Kobo, and many others do including Overdrive. A nook will allow you to read ePub bought from B&N as well as ePub bought from Sony or Borders or BooksOnBoard.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

B&N does not pay per ebook royalties to Adobe, which gives them a competitive advantage over Kobo and the other Adobe clients. Amazon also owns their DRM, which is why everyone assumes that they would use their own DRM rather than Adobe's if they ever decide to support ePub on their devices and apps.

And yet B&N is always priced the same or higher than Kobo when I search Inkmesh for books. This is anecdata, of course, but B&N books are not significantly discounted - and they NEVER offer ebook coupons.

I do get 3% my purchases from them via my credit card, but that includes everything they sell, not just ebooks. If having their own DRM is keeping them competitively priced, I don't see it.

And how does that work, anyway? The B&N DRM is Adobe based, is it not? So how is B&N putting their own spin on it preventing them from paying royalties?

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

If having their own DRM is keeping them competitively priced, I don't see it.

And how does that work, anyway? The B&N DRM is Adobe based, is it not? So how is B&N putting their own spin on it preventing them from paying royalties?

Having their own DRM allows them to make more profit. I agree that this isn't passed on to readers (as Amazon often tries to do).

My understanding is that Adobe and B&N are using the same standard encryption scheme, but with very different approaches to the encryption key. Adobe software is used for the decryption (and B&N licenses this software for its devices and apps), but no one owns the idea of using username and password as the basis for a key. B&N has long used (via eReader and FictionWise) credit card name and number as a "social" factor in its DRM scheme, but this really is just username and password.

As part of its royalty fee, Adobe serves the actual ebooks. This is probably an advantage to a small bookstore, but a large bookstore could save money by providing its own infrastructure. I am not sure this is even possible with Adobe DRM, but B&N provides its ebooks from its own servers which is easy with the username and password approach.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I'm not sure that B&N meant for this to happen...

Sure they did, otherwise they would've gone with the flow instead creating their own flavor of ePub.

[covfam]

it was the main reason i went with kindle couple years back because B&N had thier own flavor of drm and at the time thier library of ebooks didnt have 2/3rds of the books i wanted and kindle did. ill be honest thier library is much better but i still dont like thier drm and the fact that they run around advertising the freedoms of epub but dont bother to tell anyone that thier epub is different and it is infact not open. when i first got into ebook reading i was thrown off by the open epub that wasnt really open

[tomsem]

If the Kobo is using a recent version of the Adobe SDK, you should be able to read B&N books on it. The SDK supports both flavors. If you have an ePub from B&N, and open it on a device that has a recent version of the Adobe SDK, it should prompt for your B&N user name and 'password' (the credit card number used to purchase the book). That will unlock the book and any subsequent books that use the same key, as I understand it. I have been able to read B&N books on non-B&N reading systems.

Kobo support should be able to confirm this (or not).

Note that 'B&N DRM' is not proprietary to B&N - anyone who licenses Adobe Content Server can choose to use it. Note that it obviates the need to get an Adobe ID, or need to use ADE to side-load books that use this type of DRM, except when borrowing library books. Because the credit card number is real, it discourages casual sharing of the book and the credentials needed to open it.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Sure they did, otherwise they would've gone with the flow instead creating their own flavor of ePub.

Ah, I wasn't clear. My meaning was that I think B&N assumed that once their version of the DRM was available in the Adobe SDK, that Kobo/Sony/everyone would all rush to accommodate the B&N DRM on their devices because B&N is just Too Big To Ignore.

Clearly that hasn't happened. I don't know about Kobo, but I bought a new Sony 350 for my mom 2 months ago and loaded a free B&N book to it - the reader would not open the thing. No prompt for username/CC#, just a big fat No.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by tomsem

If the Kobo is using a recent version of the Adobe SDK, you should be able to read B&N books on it.

Unless they've disabled support for it like Sony did.

[SleepyBob]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

B&N does not pay per ebook royalties to Adobe, which gives them a competitive advantage over Kobo and the other Adobe clients.

Where did you hear this?

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

Where did you hear this?

IIRC it was mentioned back when they made their original deal with Adobe (when the nook classic first came out).