Pronunciation of foreign/unusual names in books - Page 2

DMB · 05-09-2011, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreams

If the name/place is in another language, then I try a translate with a listen feature (like google translate). I make sure the language is selected correctly and then listen to how it is pronounced. If I can't say it, then I just use what comes close for me. I don't know how well that really works, but it has done well (on ones that I do know).

Good idea.

wayrad · 05-09-2011, 07:02 AM

I usually pick a reasonable pronunciation based on the most similar real language, but in cases where the pronunciation is completely unclear or ambiguous, it tends to nag at me. The pronunciation guides some fantasy authors include can be very helpful when that happens.

Of course, if the author's pronunciation isn't reasonable, it's even more irritating. A while ago I read a fantasy in which the author wanted "kitsune" to be pronounced "kit-SOON-ay". I spent the whole book wondering if she also collected "net-SOOK-ay".

DiapDealer · 05-09-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayrad

Of course, if the author's pronunciation isn't reasonable, it's even more irritating. A while ago I read a fantasy in which the author wanted "kitsune" to be pronounced "kit-SOON-ay".

Actually, the author didn't invent that word, or its pronunciation. It's Japanese for "fox."

But I get where you're coming from. I can't stand the apostrophe abuse that many fantasy authors take part in, myself. "My name is j'Oh'n. j'Oh'n s'My'th'"

Ea · 05-09-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayrad

I usually pick a reasonable pronunciation based on the most similar real language, but in cases where the pronunciation is completely unclear or ambiguous, it tends to nag at me. The pronunciation guides some fantasy authors include can be very helpful when that happens.

I don't read very much fantasy, so I didn't think so much about made-up languages, but I can imagine the issues

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayrad

Of course, if the author's pronunciation isn't reasonable, it's even more irritating. A while ago I read a fantasy in which the author wanted "kitsune" to be pronounced "kit-SOON-ay". I spent the whole book wondering if she also collected "net-SOOK-ay".

With my Danish background "kit-SOON-ay" is more or less how I would pronounce it

Now I wonder how it's supposed to be pronounced in "English"

wayrad · 05-09-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Actually, the author didn't invent that word, or its pronunciation. It's Japanese for "fox."

I know - they were talking about a Japanese fox spirit, which is why it irritated me so much that they got the pronunciation wrong. The "u" in this case should be almost silent and the "e" is short. Sounds more like "kitzneh" AFAIK. (I'm not a Japanese speaker but worked in Hawaii for several years - a lot of Japanese is spoken there.)

elemenoP · 05-09-2011, 09:15 AM

I will usually stumble over the name a few times and then settle on some kind of pronunciation in my head. Then I will stick with that for the rest of the book. I was pronouncing "Hermione" wrong for years until the movie came out. I never heard that name before.

eP

DiapDealer · 05-09-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayrad

I know - they were talking about a Japanese fox spirit, which is why it irritated me so much that they got the pronunciation wrong. The "u" in this case should be almost silent and the "e" is short. Sounds more like "kitzneh" AFAIK. (I'm not a Japanese speaker but worked in Hawaii for several years - a lot of Japanese is spoken there.)

Ah, I see. And you are correct about the pronunciation. I assumed (my mistake) from your references to fantasy authors, that you were under the impression it was imaginary. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

wayrad · 05-09-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Ah, I see. And you are correct about the pronunciation. I assumed (my mistake) from your references to fantasy authors, that you were under the impression it was imaginary. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

My own fault for not being clearer - and for wandering a bit OT, since that particular example wasn't made up. But it was the most irritating thing I've ever seen in an author's pronunciation guide, even though I usually appreciate a guide being provided!

odiakkoh · 05-09-2011, 02:12 PM

Lol its not uncommon for people to take their own pronounciation and call it "right". Japanese is my native tongue and its amazing how many people argue with me on the pronounciation or meaning of a word/phrase.

wayrad · 05-09-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odiakkoh

Lol its not uncommon for people to take their own pronounciation and call it "right". Japanese is my native tongue and its amazing how many people argue with me on the pronounciation or meaning of a word/phrase.

After they've gone and had it tattooed on their ankle?

odiakkoh · 05-09-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayrad

After they've gone and had it tattooed on their ankle?

Haha of course.

BenG · 05-10-2011, 12:03 AM

From Dianna Wynne Jones' A Tough Guide to Fantasyland -

Quote:

Few NAMES in Fantasyland are considered complete unless they are interrupted by an apostrophe somewhere in the middle (as in Gna’ash). The only names usually exempt from apostrophes, apart from those of most WIZARDS, heroes, and COMPANIONS on the Tour, are those of some COUNTRIES. No one knows the reasons for this. Nor does anyone really know how an apostrophe should be pronounced, though there are theories:
1. You ignore the apostrophe and simply pronounce the word. (Here Gna’ash = Gnash.)
2. You leave a gap or lacuna where the apostrophe occurs. (Here Gna’ash = Gna-ash.)
3. You make a kind of clucking-sound to stand for the apostrophe. (Here Gna’ash = gnaglunkash.) Persons with insecurely mounted tonsils should adhere to one of the other two theories.

Xanthe · 05-10-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikeridr

Imagine me as a Norwegian native-speaking 10 year-old tried to figure out how to pronounce Mister Mxyztplk. (Still, I continued read "Superman" for another 3-4 years).

When I was finally old enough to read the words in the Superman comic book, I mentally pronounced Mxyzptlk as "Mixel-pik" for some reason, and that's the "pronunciation" that has stuck in my brain all my life.

If a writer provides a pronunciation guide, I'll read it through out of curiosity. If he/she tells me, though, that a word that I'm already misprounouncing in my mind is pronounced differently - say for example, "kitsune" mentioned in this thread - I'm still likely to keep mispronouncing it as kit-soo-nay, just because I like the sound of it better.

Since none of my RL friends read scifi/fantasy, the correct pronunciations of words/names in those books is never a topic.

I don't mind authors throwing apostrophes into names, if they carry through a consistent naming convention for that particular species or culture. I absolutely hate the lazy authors who take the

Quote:

"My name is j'Oh'n. j'Oh'n s'My'th'"

route of naming their characters, thinking that qualifies the book as a scifi/fantasy story. If I see that, then I know the rest of the book is probably going to be crap and not worth the money I paid for it.

ebusinesstutor · 05-12-2011, 02:47 PM

I don't bother pronouncing the names although I do have a quick pronunciation in my head I use for each one.

My wife has a problem with apostrophes. Hates them in names. She couldn't get into the Dragonriders of Pern because of it. The dragonriders shorten their name and apostrophe it as an honoriffic. So something like Falloran becomes F'lan.

Drove her nuts so she stopped reading them.

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05-09-2011, 07:02 AM	#17
wayrad Fanatic Posts: 551 Karma: 1121392 Join Date: May 2008 Location: USA Device: HTC One M8	I usually pick a reasonable pronunciation based on the most similar real language, but in cases where the pronunciation is completely unclear or ambiguous, it tends to nag at me. The pronunciation guides some fantasy authors include can be very helpful when that happens. Of course, if the author's pronunciation isn't reasonable, it's even more irritating. A while ago I read a fantasy in which the author wanted "kitsune" to be pronounced "kit-SOON-ay". I spent the whole book wondering if she also collected "net-SOOK-ay".

05-09-2011, 09:15 AM	#21
elemenoP Wizard Posts: 1,717 Karma: 3790058 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NYC Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650	I will usually stumble over the name a few times and then settle on some kind of pronunciation in my head. Then I will stick with that for the rest of the book. I was pronouncing "Hermione" wrong for years until the movie came out. I never heard that name before. eP

05-09-2011, 02:12 PM	#24
odiakkoh Guru Posts: 823 Karma: 1818344 Join Date: Apr 2011 Device: iPhone 5s	Lol its not uncommon for people to take their own pronounciation and call it "right". Japanese is my native tongue and its amazing how many people argue with me on the pronounciation or meaning of a word/phrase.

05-12-2011, 02:47 PM	#29
ebusinesstutor Star Gawker Posts: 526 Karma: 6944314 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Spruce Grove, AB Canada Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I don't bother pronouncing the names although I do have a quick pronunciation in my head I use for each one. My wife has a problem with apostrophes. Hates them in names. She couldn't get into the Dragonriders of Pern because of it. The dragonriders shorten their name and apostrophe it as an honoriffic. So something like Falloran becomes F'lan. Drove her nuts so she stopped reading them.

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