Where Did Things Go So Wrong?!?

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

And it doesn't help that your lobbying for an oppressive, controlling police state ruling the internet with an iron fist is 100% the opposite of the future the vast majority of science fiction readers dream of.

You certainly know how to be hard on people!!! I think he is distressed at what he sees as the failure of one of his life's projects and tries to imagine some way out.

Although I agree with you in rejecting government control of the net, I think
the purpose of this thread is discussing his career as an author, not his views on copyright enforcement (that's why he started a new thread).

Originally Posted by ardeegee

I wouldn't touch your books-- even for free-- because I find your ideas repulsive.

You don't need to share the ideas of an author to enjoy his work.

[Anke Wehner]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I've tried spreading links to the free stories around, but they rarely stay up for long. Other sites where I'd like to mention them don't allow advertising. I'm always having trouble finding places to leave links or books.

Well, that's a bit different from what I suggested.

Look at Feedbooks. The site also has a shop, but its main draw are free books. You can upload your short stories there, and people who browse that archive for free books can find yours.
On Smashwords, there's a search filter to show only free works, and while I haven't seen statistics, I strongly suspect that gives free stories extra views and downloads.

It's about getting your name out there where people are looking for things to read.

A free giveaway isn't much good if it's hard to find.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But only on your own website? Your website is for people who have already discovered you, it's useless for finding new readers.

Yep, exactly this.

I also suspect some people are more willing to doanload a file from a website where they have downloaded things before, or that generally has more traffic, than the website of someone they only just came across.


Also thirding (or dozending, or whatever) that a signature including a link to your website would be a good idea.

[caleb72]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I hear this so often: Just give some away for free... that'll solve all your problems... but I've had free material available forever.

Lowering prices... I've tried that, over a year ago, and saw no increased sales from it.

Hi Steven, I only recently became aware that you have some freebies on offer. I've downloaded Denial of Service to read.

I don't consider $3 to be expensive myself although I do admit that for me the 99c price is the "why the heck not" price that someone else mentioned.

Perhaps doing that for the first book of the series isn't such a bad idea - not temporarily but permanently. When a first book hooks you on a series price doesn't become as much of an issue for the remaining books. You could even price your final book at an optimistic price. It's never going to be anyone's first buy anyway so it's not as high a risk and those that would be in the market for it will be probably buy it at the higher price.

Regards
Caleb

[Elfwreck]

Off the top of my head, the first suggestion I've got is "add a link to your site/your books in your sig at MR;" that way, new potential readers have an easy way to discover your works. (This is not much in the way of marketing; OTOH, it doesn't cost anything either. A short note in the style of "if you like what I say here, you might like <<my other writing>> as well" couldn't hurt, and might help.)

The idea of "stay out of drama-discussions" is reasonable, but you're not doing the over-the-top screaming hysterics that loses customers. I don't think anyone's avoiding "authors who aren't anti-DRM but don't lock their ebooks." And you don't have the kind of opinions (or if you do, have had the sense not to say them aloud) that make people back away slowly and hope you never find out where they live.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Although I agree with you in rejecting government control of the net, I think
the purpose of this thread is discussing his career as an author, not his views on copyright enforcement (that's why he started a new thread).

I don't think that the two things are separable. Look at the fact that some of the most popular SF writers today are also prolific bloggers with large followings-- Cory Doctorow, Charles Stross, John Scalzi, and Peter Watts, for examples. People go out of their way to support and defend those writers because they agree with their ideas and opinions, not just because they spin a good yarn. If you want the support of the (generally) liberal and tech-savvy SF audience, then loudly and constantly lobbying for Big Brother to control the internet is absolutely the worst possible thing to do.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

After 5 years' attempting to sell my books, I've reached a crisis of confidence. My books aren't selling, the marketing I've tried hasn't worked, my books are turning up on pirate and torrent sites, suggesting that they're being noticed... but I'm losing my shirt!

I was finally pushed over the edge on Easter, when I received a Google alert that led to one of my books on a website I've never heard of, offering it for free to paid members.

People who run paid piracy sites are even lower than spammers.

But I really doubt that piracy has anything to do with your low sales numbers. It's more likely to be obscurity and (forgive me) quality.

I bought your package of books at your website back in 2008.

I'm sure I've read the "The Onuissance Cells", but I'm afraid I remember very little about it except, except my irritation at the neologism in the title.

Checking my records, it was my 57th book read in 2010. I read it over a week April. That was the longest time I spent on a book up to that point in the year, which implies that it in no way grabbed me. I only rated it 5/10. I only rated five books of those 57 lower than that. It seems I didn't find much plot in it.

I'm pretty sure I started on Worldfarm One as well at some point before 2010. But I don't think I finished it.

Which is odd, as hard science fiction is my preferred genre, and it looks like your books should be a good match. Some of the plot summaries appeal. But so far the books I've tried, haven't.

Perhaps I ought to give one of them another go. But after two books that obviously didn't grab my attention, it may take a while.

The new releases at Amazon look pretty good, although I'm not fond of the author name branding up the side of the cover. The cover displayed at Amazon for Kindle ebooks can have a big influence on a purchase.

Sorry I don't have any good advice. Selling fiction is probably even harder than writing it.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I hear this so often: Just give some away for free... that'll solve all your problems... but I've had free material available forever.

Lowering prices... I've tried that, over a year ago, and saw no increased sales from it.

The eBook landscape was quite different then.

And to be clear:

Just give some away for free

Free's is nice, but we're saying cheaper, not necessarily free.
You make a lot more money on one 99 cent sale then on no $2.99 sales.

And we're not saying any stuff, we're saying specifically the first book of a series, particularly an SF series. We SF readers seem to respond to that.
I think it's because it's like an invitation into a new universe....

that'll solve all your problems

No one is saying that. But it might mitigate a few of them.

I've tried that, over a year ago, and saw no increased sales from it.

People also have to know about it. I'm not saying I represent all of your potential readership, but I, for one, never heard of you, or the Kestral series, before the piracy thread this week.

ApK

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by caleb72

Hi Steven, I only recently became aware that you have some freebies on offer. I've downloaded Denial of Service to read.

I don't consider $3 to be expensive myself although I do admit that for me the 99c price is the "why the heck not" price that someone else mentioned.

Perhaps doing that for the first book of the series isn't such a bad idea - not temporarily but permanently. When a first book hooks you on a series price doesn't become as much of an issue for the remaining books. You could even price your final book at an optimistic price. It's never going to be anyone's first buy anyway so it's not as high a risk and those that would be in the market for it will be probably buy it at the higher price.

Denial of Service and The Onuissance Cells are on Smashwords, free for doanload. (Correction: Something happened to Onuissance, I'll have to restore it.) The others are just one-shot bits I did for MR, and I didn't consider them even worthy of Smashwords exposure.

I'll consider the idea of a 99 cent first-of-series book. Of course, I only have one series...

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But before you can make money from an audience you need to have an audience. I would suggest you find that audience before you worry about how much you can make from them.

Perhaps such an audience can be found through boards that are specific to the genre (or maybe Steve already hangs out in such places). It's been a long time since I've personally visited, but I know sites like SFFWorld and SFFChronicles have/had areas for writers as well as just general discussions an author could participate in and hopefully be noticed by folks who are most/all there because they are fans of SF and Fantasy.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

I don't think that the two things are separable. Look at the fact that some of the most popular SF writers today are also prolific bloggers with large followings-- Cory Doctorow, Charles Stross, John Scalzi, and Peter Watts, for examples. People go out of their way to support and defend those writers because they agree with their ideas and opinions, not just because they spin a good yarn. If you want the support of the (generally) liberal and tech-savvy SF audience, then loudly and constantly lobbying for Big Brother to control the internet is absolutely the worst possible thing to do.

I agree with Cory Doctorow's opinions, but of his books, I only liked "Little Brother" and some short stories, struggled through "For the win" and found the rest of them unreadable.

OTOH, I hate Tom Clancy's opinions, but that didn't prevent me from enjoying "The hunt for the Red October".

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I'll consider the idea of a 99 cent first-of-series book.

Let us know.

On another matter raised, the safest and most diplomatic action is to avoid public discussion of polarizing issues altogether, unless you want your views tied to your audience's perception of your work.

On the other hand, every polarizing issue has two sides. Repel one, and you attract the other.

ApK

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I'll consider the idea of a 99 cent first-of-series book. Of course, I only have one series...

That's a very good idea!!!
Have you heard from Shayne Parkinson? She writes historical fiction set in New Zealand. She's written a 4-book series ("Promises to keep") and gives away the first ("Sentence of Marriage"). I liked it so much that I bought the other three ($1.99 each, and I would have certainly paid more than that). And I will buy anything she writes in the future.

Smashwords coupons are great. You can keep your current $3 price but offer a discount coupon for some time to make it $0.99.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Perhaps such an audience can be found through boards that are specific to the genre (or maybe Steve already hangs out in such places). It's been a long time since I've personally visited, but I know sites like SFFWorld and SFFChronicles have/had areas for writers as well as just general discussions an author could participate in and hopefully be noticed by folks who are most/all there because they are fans of SF and Fantasy.

I have spent time on, and participated in, those sites. problem is, they frown upon personal advertising. And unless things have changed there recently, the sites have an incredibly low opinion of indie writers (and not much higher an opinion of ebooks).

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

And it doesn't help that your lobbying for an oppressive, controlling police state ruling the internet with an iron fist is 100% the opposite of the future the vast majority of science fiction readers dream of. I wouldn't touch your books-- even for free-- because I find your ideas repulsive.

When I read his post advocating that I immediately lost all interest in his work.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by twowheels

When I read his post advocating that I immediately lost all interest in his work.

Then what are you two doing here? Fine, you've registered your distaste at my personal opinions (which neither of you have depicted accurately, I might add). You're just being trolls here. You can go now.