WTF do publishers think they're doing ? - Page 2

MrPLD · 02-16-2011, 08:10 AM

I think the other thing that traditional publishers are going to be trying to deal with along with the massive increase in eBook popularity is of course the equally large increase in books being pushed out by independent writers. At least with paperbacks the traditional publishers still had a good edge there in terms of distribution channels and margins, but with the advent of "anyone can be a published writer, anywhere in the world" it's really going to hopefully make major publishers rethink their business models a bit.

Paul.

Billi · 02-16-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommonReader

It's obviously a problem to set the correct price for books published in "global languages" like English or Spanish. What is the correct price that fits both India and the US or Spain and Honduras? What do you do if there are massive changes of the exchange rates? It is much more simple for languages like German with many readers who mostly live in countries with very comparable standards of living.

It may be more simple but that doesn't mean to have the same price: often enough we have three different prices of the same book for Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

caleb72 · 02-16-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Of course, the issue here isn't the pricing, it's the availability.

Yes - for me this is more of an issue than pricing.

Regards
Caleb

tubemonkey · 02-16-2011, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caleb72

Yes - for me this is more of an issue than pricing.

For me, pricing is everything.

queentess · 02-16-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidjit

Then have alook at the US site .... nope not available till 27 september in paperback or Kindle but when the Kindle version's available it'll be $7.99 WTF !!!!

That's the same U.S. release date and price for the mmpb. This particular book is (in the U.S.) being treated as a paperback equivalent by the publisher. It irks me when publishers delay the ebook... I want it released on the hardback date, but I'm not willing to pay full $28 USD for it. Honestly, I've never understood why the hardback comes out first and the paperback much later, aside from publishers wanting to charge 3x as much for hardback.

fjtorres · 02-16-2011, 08:36 AM

What is going on is a "perfect storm" of out-dated practices converging to dump on consumers:

1- Until recently, publishers were also printers and they could only profitably sell books where they were printed. Shipping costs made it unprofitable to print in one country and ship at another at the same price.

2- Nation-state governments have long seen their (dominant) national culture as a glue that holds the state together so they have seen fit to restrain imports of "cultural products" that might undercut local products and/or prop up the local providers through subsidies or restriction of competition.

3- As a result of the above: until recently, most national markets were isolated pockets free of external competitive pressures. Even if a book was available cheaper elsewhere the shipping cost, time delay, and import duties all were calibrated to protect the local sources, many of whom found a nice and tidy business in licensing external content for local production and sale. (Just as Apple charges a 30% tax for access to their locked-in customer base, the regional publishers charge content providers for access to the lock-in citizenry in their region.)

4- Over time, the system that evolved made good money for the middlemen, less money for the creators, and royally shafted the consumers in the smaller market. But there wasn't a viable alternative. Everybody was in the same boat.

Fast forward to the 21st century.
Global shipping now allows reasonably fast and cheap movement of goods.
Global communications allows fast and reliable online sale of said goods.
New digital goods technologies allow for massless content distribution over the open communications networks.
Suddenly, the various regional markets are no longer isolated.
Price comparisons are possible.
Consumer-level cross-continental shopping is routine.
And planet-wide marketting is not only viable but highly profitable.

Yet the old structures remain because the regional players (more often than not) still act as if they have a god-given right to exploit the customer base in their territories and, where print books are concerned, they really don't have the right to sell outside their territory. What started out as a necessity became an enforceable "gentlemen's agreement" not to "poach" on each other's territory and is now a deathgrip on fading monopolies.
In these early days of ebooks, too many regional publishers see themselves solely as importers and distributors of content and fail to see the greater profits to be made by exporting local content worldwide. They would rather protect the remnants of their 19th century monopolies than try to exploit the wide-open global market.
What the publishers are doing is hanging on to an outdated business model because they fear the new global market of the 21st.

It is unwise of them.
It is a losing game. It hurts their existing customers, it hurts the authors whose content they are pledged to promote and distribute, and it guarantees their own demise.
They can drag things out, especially in regions with protectionist nationalist regimes, and annoy and hurt their customers for a while longer, but eventually the nature of the technology will assert itself.
Over time, content producers will see there is more money to be made with unfettered global language rights contracts than with regional cotracts. Over time, global retail channels will be established (Amazon is already there and vilified for it but they are not going away. Kobo is building a federated counter through regional partnerships. Other players will emerge.).
Over time the existing regional contracts and the copyrights they enforce will expire and most if not all content will be licensed appropriately for a global marketplace.
Over time pricing will be rationalized, availability will be synchronized, and revenues will be maximized.
Customers all over will still be exploited, of course, but they won't be made to feel like afterthoughts and they'll all be exploited equally.

Nirvana it won't be.
But it won't be Gehenna either.
But its still a long ways off.

caleb72 · 02-16-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

For me, pricing is everything.

I can understand that - but if I can't get the book in the first place, whether it's more expensive or not isn't going to weigh that heavily on me.

Regards
Caleb

HarryT · 02-16-2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

That's the same U.S. release date and price for the mmpb. This particular book is (in the U.S.) being treated as a paperback equivalent by the publisher. It irks me when publishers delay the ebook... I want it released on the hardback date, but I'm not willing to pay full $28 USD for it. Honestly, I've never understood why the hardback comes out first and the paperback much later, aside from publishers wanting to charge 3x as much for hardback.

Because it's the hardback that pays back the initial expenditure. Hardbacks are much more profitable than paperbacks. You have the choice: pay more to get the book NOW, or wait a year and pay a lot less.

jbcohen · 02-16-2011, 08:39 AM

Thanks biblio I needed a laugh.

tubemonkey · 02-16-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

Honestly, I've never understood why the hardback comes out first and the paperback much later, aside from publishers wanting to charge 3x as much for hardback.

They want to maximize profits. Maybe they should price ebooks the same way? Hardcover prices for the first 30 days, then paperback pricing thereafter.

tubemonkey · 02-16-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caleb72

I can understand that - but if I can't get the book in the first place, whether it's more expensive or not isn't going to weigh that heavily on me.

Regards
Caleb

If all I have is a high price, then I won't buy. I'm patient and willing to wait for availability to increase and prices to drop.

Anke Wehner · 02-16-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billi

It may be more simple but that doesn't mean to have the same price: often enough we have three different prices of the same book for Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

AFAIK book costs more in Austria than in Germany because in Germany a lower VAT applies to books. I think Wikipedia says that the price fixing law is not in effect in Switzerland.

queentess · 02-16-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because it's the hardback that pays back the initial expenditure. Hardbacks are much more profitable than paperbacks. You have the choice: pay more to get the book NOW, or wait a year and pay a lot less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

They want to maximize profits. Maybe they should price ebooks the same way? Hardcover prices for the first 30 days, then paperback pricing thereafter.

I'd be ok with hardback prices if the ebook were released immediately. I would buy very very few ebooks at this price, but I'd love to just have it available. I don't want to wait a year to get the book in the format I prefer.

Lexi Revellian · 02-16-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I'm perfectly content with reading from authors who died long ago.

You know how to hurt a writer, strange leggy monkey-type creature.

tubemonkey · 02-16-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi Revellian

You know how to hurt a writer, strange leggy monkey-type creature.

No offense, but my reading is overwhelmingly the public domain stuff; the classics.

What genre do you write?

02-16-2011, 08:36 AM	#21
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	What is going on is a "perfect storm" of out-dated practices converging to dump on consumers: 1- Until recently, publishers were also printers and they could only profitably sell books where they were printed. Shipping costs made it unprofitable to print in one country and ship at another at the same price. 2- Nation-state governments have long seen their (dominant) national culture as a glue that holds the state together so they have seen fit to restrain imports of "cultural products" that might undercut local products and/or prop up the local providers through subsidies or restriction of competition. 3- As a result of the above: until recently, most national markets were isolated pockets free of external competitive pressures. Even if a book was available cheaper elsewhere the shipping cost, time delay, and import duties all were calibrated to protect the local sources, many of whom found a nice and tidy business in licensing external content for local production and sale. (Just as Apple charges a 30% tax for access to their locked-in customer base, the regional publishers charge content providers for access to the lock-in citizenry in their region.) 4- Over time, the system that evolved made good money for the middlemen, less money for the creators, and royally shafted the consumers in the smaller market. But there wasn't a viable alternative. Everybody was in the same boat. Fast forward to the 21st century. Global shipping now allows reasonably fast and cheap movement of goods. Global communications allows fast and reliable online sale of said goods. New digital goods technologies allow for massless content distribution over the open communications networks. Suddenly, the various regional markets are no longer isolated. Price comparisons are possible. Consumer-level cross-continental shopping is routine. And planet-wide marketting is not only viable but highly profitable. Yet the old structures remain because the regional players (more often than not) still act as if they have a god-given right to exploit the customer base in their territories and, where print books are concerned, they really don't have the right to sell outside their territory. What started out as a necessity became an enforceable "gentlemen's agreement" not to "poach" on each other's territory and is now a deathgrip on fading monopolies. In these early days of ebooks, too many regional publishers see themselves solely as importers and distributors of content and fail to see the greater profits to be made by exporting local content worldwide. They would rather protect the remnants of their 19th century monopolies than try to exploit the wide-open global market. What the publishers are doing is hanging on to an outdated business model because they fear the new global market of the 21st. It is unwise of them. It is a losing game. It hurts their existing customers, it hurts the authors whose content they are pledged to promote and distribute, and it guarantees their own demise. They can drag things out, especially in regions with protectionist nationalist regimes, and annoy and hurt their customers for a while longer, but eventually the nature of the technology will assert itself. Over time, content producers will see there is more money to be made with unfettered global language rights contracts than with regional cotracts. Over time, global retail channels will be established (Amazon is already there and vilified for it but they are not going away. Kobo is building a federated counter through regional partnerships. Other players will emerge.). Over time the existing regional contracts and the copyrights they enforce will expire and most if not all content will be licensed appropriately for a global marketplace. Over time pricing will be rationalized, availability will be synchronized, and revenues will be maximized. Customers all over will still be exploited, of course, but they won't be made to feel like afterthoughts and they'll all be exploited equally. Nirvana it won't be. But it won't be Gehenna either. But its still a long ways off. Last edited by fjtorres; 02-16-2011 at 08:39 AM.

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02-16-2011, 08:10 AM	#16
MrPLD Author's pet-geek Posts: 933 Karma: 1040670 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Queensland, Australia Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Onyx Boox M96	I think the other thing that traditional publishers are going to be trying to deal with along with the massive increase in eBook popularity is of course the equally large increase in books being pushed out by independent writers. At least with paperbacks the traditional publishers still had a good edge there in terms of distribution channels and margins, but with the advent of "anyone can be a published writer, anywhere in the world" it's really going to hopefully make major publishers rethink their business models a bit. Paul.

02-16-2011, 08:39 AM	#24
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	Thanks biblio I needed a laugh.

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