Kindle UK frustrations

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by leaston

It's simply a resurrection of the net book agreement and daylight robbery.

It's not the same at all.

The Net Book Agreement (NBA) forced retailers to sell at a particular price. It was a form of restrictive practice that was made illegal in UK, for everything except books, in the 1960s.

The retail price of ebooks is not subject to any such control. The retailer is free to discount books, or not, according to their judgement. If the price that Amazon charges for a particular Kindle version is too high, you are free to buy elsewhere. That was not the case with the NBA.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Personally, I always sort it out as soon as I get the book. One never knows what the future will bring.

Oh, me too.

Back on-topic.

There isn't a UK ebook version of "A Room With A View". There is a US ebook store edition. Penguin certainly seem to have UK paper rights. But whether they don't have UK ebook rights, or whether they just have decided not to release it, they don't have a UK ebook edition.

Sigh...

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Mike L

It's not the same at all.

The Net Book Agreement (NBA) forced retailers to sell at a particular price. It was a form of restrictive practice that was made illegal in UK, for everything except books, in the 1960s.

The retail price of ebooks is not subject to any such control. The retailer is free to discount books, or not, according to their judgement. If the price that Amazon charges for a particular Kindle version is too high, you are free to buy elsewhere. That was not the case with the NBA.

[bold added]

How is it not the same? The agency agreement forces all retailers to sell any particular ebook at the retail price set by the publisher of that ebook. In particular, retailers are not allowed to discount the ebook at all. Any retailer not agreeing to the agency terms cannot sell ebooks from that publisher at all.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Mike L

It's not the same at all.

The Net Book Agreement (NBA) forced retailers to sell at a particular price. It was a form of restrictive practice that was made illegal in UK, for everything except books, in the 1960s.

The retail price of ebooks is not subject to any such control. The retailer is free to discount books, or not, according to their judgement.

But they aren't, Mike; that's the point. With "agency pricing", the retailer is NOT free to set the price; the price is set by the publisher, and the retailer is not permitted to discount it.

Eg, to pick an example entirely at random, here is the Kindle e-book of Agatha Christie's "Murder on the Orient Express". You'll see that it says under it "This price was set by the publisher". Amazon cannot discount it. As it happens, in this particular case, I think that the publisher's price of £3.99 is entirely reasonable, but that's certainly not always the case.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Bin this particular case, I think that the publisher's price of £3.99 is entirely reasonable, but that's certainly not always the case.

Wow - that is a surprise. The ebook price is actually less than the discounted paperback price. Not by much, but it's a lot better than the usual situation.

Hopefully we'll eventually also see lower-price bundles of back-catalogue titles.

There are about 80 Agatha Christie Novels and short story collections. I suspect that the publishers are much more likely to sell all 80 in a bundle for (say)£99 than they are to sell 25 or more individual titles to any particular person. i.e. they'd make more money overall.

If I didn't have them all already, such a bundle would be almost irresistible!

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But they aren't, Mike; that's the point. With "agency pricing", the retailer is NOT free to set the price; the price is set by the publisher, and the retailer is not permitted to discount it.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

How is it not the same? The agency agreement forces all retailers to sell any particular ebook at the retail price set by the publisher of that ebook.

Fair comments. What I was trying to say to the original poster was that he was not forced to buy any particular book from Amazon in Kindle format. If a publisher requires Amazon to sell a particular Kindle book at a fixed price, that doesn't bind other ebook retailers, and it doesn't prevent a purchaser buying it in a different format.

Or does it? I thought the agency model was between Amazon and the large publishers. Are you saying that it allows the publisher to fix the price for all retailers in all ebook formats? By all means, correct me if I have misunderstood.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Are you saying that it allows the publisher to fix the price for all retailers in all ebook formats?

Exactly so.

Agency publishers have agency contracts with ALL ebook retailers selling their ebooks, and (because of a clause in their contracts with Amazon) must sell at other sites at or above the price the book is listed at Amazon.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I thought the agency model was between Amazon and the large publishers. Are you saying that it allows the publisher to fix the price for all retailers in all ebook formats? By all means, correct me if I have misunderstood.

That's it exactly. What the publisher is saying is "we will only allow you to sell our books if you act as our agent, rather than a retailer". The retailer of course has the choice not to sell the publisher's books at all, but if they want to sell the books, the publisher sets the price. It's price fixing, pure and simple, and that's why the OFT has launched an investigation into it.

[Mike L]

Harry and P Durrant,

Thank you for the clarification. I stand corrected.

Based on what you say, this definitely seems to be a restrictive practice within the meaning of the act. It will be interesting to see the outcome of the OFT investigation.

[Paulinafrica]

Originally Posted by HarryT

On the other hand, many e-books in the UK are cheaper than they are in the US, even with VAT.

To the original poster, I am forced to buy from Amazon.com due to my geographical location, I would much rather be able to buy from the UK website, in my somewhat limited experience, their prices are better and in general I prefer their variety, if you have a look at the US selection of best sellers and compare that with the UK one, it suits my taste in reading matter far better than the US one and dare I say it has a more eclectic selection. Quick example UK site 'The Hanging Shed' - £1.00 = $1.61 US site $11.99!
Cheers
Paul

[leaston]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Harry and P Durrant,

Thank you for the clarification. I stand corrected.

Based on what you say, this definitely seems to be a restrictive practice within the meaning of the act. It will be interesting to see the outcome of the OFT investigation.

Which was my point Mike. It's similar enough to the net book agreement for us customers in the sense that the retailers like Amazon are forced to sell at a specific price, no matter how ridiculous it may be. I've seen any number of books on Amazon recently for the Kindle where it states somewhere on the page that the price is set by the publisher. Hence my original post

I don't think anyone's going to convince me that setting ebook prices higher than real books, then adding VAT (on ebooks ONLY) is sensible, fair or anything other than restrictive practice. It's one of those things you're all just going to have to put up with me moaning about from time to time

The thing is, for a lot of the books I want, and because I have a Kindle, I'm kind of forced to either buy at the outrageous prices or do without the book I want on my Kindle. I know there are other means to get the book, but that's not the point really. If I didn't want to buy from Amazon, I'd have bought a Nook or Sony reader.

[billmilo]

All I know is that I greatly wish to have a few books from the UK store, but can't purchase them. My soul is yearning to read those books. My many attempts to accommodate such needs have been coldly met.

[OverTwo]

Vote with your money.

If the prices are too high don't buy them, if everyone were to do this the publishers wouldn't rip you guys off. I know it's easier said than done.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by leaston

Hi all,
To add insult to injury, VAT of 20% is levied against ebooks, but not dead tree versions.

snip
Leaston

In fact the tax rate is 15%, the standard VAT rate in Luxenburg where Amazon EU Sarl is registered. This may change in 2015 to the rate in the cutomer's location as for mail order paper books. As to why, the EU tax site has some talk about how ebooks are "more than just text" think multimedia perhaps.