Do Sony Readers display real page numbers?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

I've found that many EPUBs also use the page numbers of the printed versions. It's important to me for some texts because, like you, I need to cite references.

Are you referring to books which insert the original printed page numbers in the actual text of the book?

[SeaBookGuy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you referring to books which insert the original printed page numbers in the actual text of the book?

PDF books (scans of the hard copy) do that, but I've never seen that with an Epub!

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you referring to books which insert the original printed page numbers in the actual text of the book?

It is possible to use a paper book's pages as Adobe ePub pages, by adding a page-map file that looks like the following (from Adobe's EPUB Best Practices Guide):

<page-map xmlns=”http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf”>
          <page name=”” href=”OPS/cover.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”i” href=”OPS/preface.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”ii” href=”OPS/preface.xhtml#pg_ii”/>
          <page name=”iii” href=”OPS/preface.xhtml#pg_iii”/>
          <page name=”1” href=”OPS/chapter1.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”2” href=”OPS/chapter1.xhtml#pg_1”/>
          <page name=”3” href=”OPS/chapter1.xhtml#pg_2”/>
          <page name=”4” href=”OPS/chapter2.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”5” href=”OPS/chapter2.xhtml#pg_1”/>
</page-map>

If this file isn't present, then Abobe uses its "fake page" algorithm for pages. My impression has been that the page-break file is rarely present, but I don't typically have a paper version to compare to.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

It is possible to use a paper book's pages as Adobe ePub pages, by adding a page-map file that looks like the following (from Adobe's EPUB Best Practices Guide):

<page-map xmlns=”http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf”>
          <page name=”” href=”OPS/cover.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”i” href=”OPS/preface.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”ii” href=”OPS/preface.xhtml#pg_ii”/>
          <page name=”iii” href=”OPS/preface.xhtml#pg_iii”/>
          <page name=”1” href=”OPS/chapter1.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”2” href=”OPS/chapter1.xhtml#pg_1”/>
          <page name=”3” href=”OPS/chapter1.xhtml#pg_2”/>
          <page name=”4” href=”OPS/chapter2.xhtml”/>
          <page name=”5” href=”OPS/chapter2.xhtml#pg_1”/>
</page-map>

If this file isn't present, then Abobe uses its "fake page" algorithm for pages. My impression has been that the page-break file is rarely present, but I don't typically have a paper version to compare to.

Thanks. I've never seen a book that does that.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by SeaBookGuy

PDF books (scans of the hard copy) do that, but I've never seen that with an Epub!

Lots of PG books have page numbers, normally in square brackets in the text. I always remove them - I find them to be distracting.

[Pinecone]

What needs to be done is to move from page numbers and start labeling acedemic texts with outline numbering, so you can refer to specific paragraphs.

Time to move into the digital age.

[meisterz]

Maybe it's because I come from pda's but I like the "page" number to change everytime I push the button. It doesn't feel like progress is being made when you are on the same epub page for 5 "page turns".

[elizilla]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Lots of PG books have page numbers, normally in square brackets in the text. I always remove them - I find them to be distracting.

I've been working on books at Distributed Proofreaders (http://www.pgdp.net/c/). They clean up books converted from scans, and make nice clean copies available on Project Gutenberg (automatically generated copies, which PG also has, tend to have a lot of OCR and formatting errors). Anyway, DP has a perhaps-overly-ornate multiple stage process where each page is proofed by three different people, then formatting is done and checked by multiple people, and then it goes to post-processing where it's made into a text version and an html version, and then someone else checks that before it goes to PG. The epubs are automatically generated from the html versions, I believe, though there's talk of hand-massaging those too for the optimum results as well.

I have been working in post processing of late. The page numbers you describe are part of their standard. I just recently finished a book that had about 30 pages of index, with every reference pointing to a page number. I spent a lot of time building links so that you could click on each thing in the index and be taken to the right page in the book. I hope that when it is converted to epub, all that stuff will come along for the ride, with or without page numbers.

[erasure25]

Originally Posted by meisterz

Maybe it's because I come from pda's but I like the "page" number to change everytime I push the button. It doesn't feel like progress is being made when you are on the same epub page for 5 "page turns".

But the problem with this is that this would mean the "pagination" would depend on the screen size and the font size. A big font size would contain less words per page, thus more overall "pages" as you read the book.

The EPUB file standardizes this by creating actual pages, like a real book. But as you increase your font size or change screen sizes, you will end up with a page that spans across 1 or more eReader "screen flips." Alternatively, if you are using a very small font size or you have a huge screen, you could have multiple pages displayed on the screen. I get what you are saying in terms of feeling like you are making progress, but I much prefer how EPUB files standardize page numbering.

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

What needs to be done is to move from page numbers and start labeling acedemic texts with outline numbering, so you can refer to specific paragraphs.

Time to move into the digital age.

I agree that outline numbering is good for academic texts. Among its advantages is that it allows you to precisely locate the text you're looking for. It's also an already-existing and understood standard.

When it comes to traditional books, I think a better way to handle it is to use a percentage number, one that can be fine tuned based on the length of the text. Short ebooks might use full percentage numbers, while longer ebooks might add a few decimal places to allow precise location.

Regardless of the adjustments made to the text on the ebook reader (such as making the text larger), the percentage numbers should remain roughly the same. Plus, it doesn't have to be implemented within the ebook itself, it can be taken care of by the ereader itself.

It breaks away from the page paradigm that isn't as usable with books where the page length can vary based on a number of factors. Also, percentage is something that is easily understood and independent of specific ebook formatting.

[varlokkur]

The keyword-search method works for finding terms, but it's not as helpful when the index refers to more abstract matter. I recently had to help a small publishing house update a book for a new edition, and we found this to be a problem. Sections about 'communism', for example, didn't always include the word 'communism' or any synonym thereof. It'd be nice if the publishers always took the time to make e-versions correspond to print. It IS the future.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by varlokkur

The keyword-search method works for finding terms, but it's not as helpful when the index refers to more abstract matter. I recently had to help a small publishing house update a book for a new edition, and we found this to be a problem. Sections about 'communism', for example, didn't always include the word 'communism' or any synonym thereof. It'd be nice if the publishers always took the time to make e-versions correspond to print. It IS the future.

In an eBook you handle that with hyperlinks. Page numbers are completely unnecessary for an index. eBooks should take advantage of the capabilities of an eBook, not attempt to "mirror" a printed book.