Backing up K3 content to a hard drive - Page 2

DiapDealer · 01-05-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

But I'd feel wrong about stripping DRM, if I could even figure it out (after reading Apprentice Alf, I doubt I can.) Guess my simple, "How do I back up for my own future use?" question was far more complex than I anticipated. Very disappointing. I'd truly been hoping my future book purchases would be more like my music purchases have been the last few years since iTunes launched, moving my collection from physical to digital.

Just keep in mind that there are many places to get DRM-free content that you can, indeed, back up any way you see fit. But you may be correct... if you want to "own" your ebook, but would be "uncomfortable" removing DRM... an ereader may not be for you.

nic_x · 01-05-2011, 01:29 PM

Thank you, DiapDealer. It's not so much that I'd feel wrong, I guess, since I'd simply be saving the files for backup purposes. But I don't want to end up discovering that I'm doing something illegal. (Grumble, grumble...)

I'm going to try to figure it all out. I really do want an eReader--a Kindle would be ideal, now that I've played with them and know I like the experience--but the risks on content loss seem significant, far more than I'd anticipated.

abookreader · 01-05-2011, 01:56 PM

Well one thing I always point out to people. I have probably lost/misplaced/ruined hundreds of books throughout my life with food spills, bathtub drops, got down on the floorboard of a car and a kid stomped on it, couldn't afford to move it, friend borrowed and didn't return, ran out of space on the shelves etc etc etc.

I have yet to lose an eBook.

I liberate and catalog as I buy because it takes a couple of seconds to handle one book. If I needed to convert my entire library at some point in the future, it would probably be hours of work.

Plus, if I buy a book from Amazon I want to be able to read it on every device we own.

speedlever · 01-05-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF2

Oh, if k-4-pc uses VolumeSerial# or similar, then the backups of my-documents to an external drive from that dying c:drive may not work when it is returned. Hmm I will definitely be experimenting when I get it back. And as the OP has postulated, I will definitely be examining the backup options - specifically removing the impediment to backups. At this point, if I want Book-X on my real k3, my netbook, my desktop and my work computer and I want the security of backups, each version of Book=X would need to be backed up separately. Oh, well, it keeps the usb-drive manufacturers happy.

This brings up an issue I had not previously considered. I sync many files, including my ebook library to my laptop using a program called Syncback SE. I also back up my data on an external drive. It sounds like my backup ebook library may be useless for the items that are still drmd. I need to fix that, having just recovered from an OS hard drive crash a few weeks ago.

How do I determine which ebooks still contain drm?

nic_x · 01-05-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abookreader

Well one thing I always point out to people. I have probably lost/misplaced/ruined hundreds of books throughout my life with food spills, bathtub drops, got down on the floorboard of a car and a kid stomped on it, couldn't afford to move it, friend borrowed and didn't return, ran out of space on the shelves etc etc etc.

I have yet to lose an eBook.

.

What worries me is that, rather than losing and having to replace a single book--say, because I left it on an airplane--I might lose my entire electronic library.

I haven't bought a Kindle yet, but I did buy a couple of books in Kindle format from Amazon to try out on my iPhone, and I downloaded Kindle for Mac to see how that operates. I also went to Best Buy to play with a Kindle firsthand. That's what led me to think that yep, I was ready for a Kindle. More research than I'd usually do for a $180 purchase, but it's because I want to know that I can move over to digital without encountering a monster headache (like a loss of data) down the road. This thread has really been eye-opening for me. The whole topic of backing up doesn't get discussed when you read the 11,000 reviews of the Kindle posted to Amazon

screwballl · 01-05-2011, 03:12 PM

If it is bought and downloaded to Kindle4-whatever, it can still be downloaded and read on the Kindle itself. The DRM is set for the account, not the "device", so you can have access to the exact same file whether you are using a Kindle, K4PC, K4Mac, K4iphone or whatever. The only catch is that the azm is specific for the K4Mac, but when you get your Kindle device, the same book will be listed under Archived items and able to be downloaded. At that point you can backup all the files to your computer.

So a backup should work fine since the Kindle, Kindle4PC, Kindle4Mac is all tied to your same account so the same file should work for each (should and will are 2 different things since these companies are always changing their setups).

rainyday · 01-05-2011, 03:34 PM

You can download it again, but not if it is currently on a total of six other devices... one of them would have to release it. I guess the chance of all six drives/computers going dead simultaneously is not that great, but I'm also coming to realize that I don't really "own" the books on my Kindle in the same way I do the ones in my garage, bedroom, bookcases, etc. I think if I come across a book I really care about, I might well wind up buying a hard copy.

TheKindleWorm · 01-05-2011, 03:44 PM

If you really and truly want to "own" the ebooks then removing the DRM for your own personal use is the way to go.

However, I love the fact that Amazon back up all my ebook purchases and I can download to whichever Kindle app I want on my account up to the max of 6 devices.

I've only ever read about one person whose ebooks somehow went missing on Amazon's servers - and in that case they were refunded for every item. So they could then be re-purchased. Amazon tend to be very good like that. I trust Amazon a whole lot more than some other ebookstores - I complained to a UK ebook store about poor formatting and they couldn't have cared less. Amazon will give you a refund.

screwballl · 01-05-2011, 03:52 PM

This still applies to all digital formats with DRM:

DiapDealer · 01-05-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srewballl

The DRM is set for the account, not the "device"

The DRM is specific to the device. You are wrong here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by screwballl

So a backup should work fine since the Kindle, Kindle4PC, Kindle4Mac is all tied to your same account so the same file should work for each (should and will are 2 different things since these companies are always changing their setups).

Wrong again. I'm tired of trying to explain it.

screwballl · 01-05-2011, 04:06 PM

Diap, that may have been true with Kindle 1 or 2 and/or topaz files but not with current azw/azm files.

1) I called Amazon support and they also verified the DRM "code" is determined by account, not by device.

2) To verify this, I bought a book that came as a AZW file with DRM that I downloaded from Amazon to Kindle4PC, then transferred that file from my PC directly to my Kindle via USB cord and the file worked without a problem.

DiapDealer · 01-05-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Diap, that may have been true with Kindle 1 or 2 and/or topaz files but not with current azw/azm files.

There's no such thing as an azm file for the Kindle.

Quote:

1) I called Amazon support and they also verified the DRM "code" is determined by account, not by device.

If you truly called... then that support person lied to you.

Quote:

2) To verify this, I bought a book that came as a AZW file with DRM that I downloaded from Amazon to Kindle4PC, then transferred that file from my PC directly to my Kindle via USB cord and the file worked without a problem.

Simply put: IF the ebook had DRM... then what you have described is impossible. Trust people who know.

I'm beginning to think that you don't even own a Kindle.

screwballl · 01-05-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

There's no such thing as an azm file for the Kindle.

If you truly called... then that support person lied to you.

Simply put: IF the ebook had DRM... then what you have described is impossible. Trust people who know.

I'm beginning to think that you don't even own a Kindle.

Please stop confusing people with lies. I am a long time computer tech, I know how DRM works, and I learned how this one works from Amazon themselves.

Amazon DRM = code set relating to account info, NOT by device. This is how you can transfer an AZW file with DRM directly to your Kindle from your PC.

AZM - modified AZW file typically used with K4Mac but is also usable on a Kindle itself.
AZD File Extension - Amazone Downloader Download Seed File
AZW - Amazon ebook file, typically used on Kindle and K4PC

HarryT · 01-05-2011, 04:19 PM

Diap is absolutely right. Kindle DRM is device-specific, not account-specific. A Kindle book that has been downloaded for one device will not work on another, even if both devices are registered to the same account. The only circumstance in which this would work is if the book was DRM-free, as many of the free classics at Amazon are.

DiapDealer · 01-05-2011, 04:23 PM

Thanks for the support Harry, but I'm pretty sure this one is a lost cause.

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01-05-2011, 01:29 PM	#17
nic_x Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: none	Thank you, DiapDealer. It's not so much that I'd feel wrong, I guess, since I'd simply be saving the files for backup purposes. But I don't want to end up discovering that I'm doing something illegal. (Grumble, grumble...) I'm going to try to figure it all out. I really do want an eReader--a Kindle would be ideal, now that I've played with them and know I like the experience--but the risks on content loss seem significant, far more than I'd anticipated.

01-05-2011, 01:56 PM	#18
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	Well one thing I always point out to people. I have probably lost/misplaced/ruined hundreds of books throughout my life with food spills, bathtub drops, got down on the floorboard of a car and a kid stomped on it, couldn't afford to move it, friend borrowed and didn't return, ran out of space on the shelves etc etc etc. I have yet to lose an eBook. I liberate and catalog as I buy because it takes a couple of seconds to handle one book. If I needed to convert my entire library at some point in the future, it would probably be hours of work. Plus, if I buy a book from Amazon I want to be able to read it on every device we own.

01-05-2011, 03:12 PM	#21
screwballl NewKindler Posts: 504 Karma: 1865773 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NWFL Device: Kindle3 Wifi	If it is bought and downloaded to Kindle4-whatever, it can still be downloaded and read on the Kindle itself. The DRM is set for the account, not the "device", so you can have access to the exact same file whether you are using a Kindle, K4PC, K4Mac, K4iphone or whatever. The only catch is that the azm is specific for the K4Mac, but when you get your Kindle device, the same book will be listed under Archived items and able to be downloaded. At that point you can backup all the files to your computer. So a backup should work fine since the Kindle, Kindle4PC, Kindle4Mac is all tied to your same account so the same file should work for each (should and will are 2 different things since these companies are always changing their setups).

01-05-2011, 03:34 PM	#22
rainyday Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: kindle 3	You can download it again, but not if it is currently on a total of six other devices... one of them would have to release it. I guess the chance of all six drives/computers going dead simultaneously is not that great, but I'm also coming to realize that I don't really "own" the books on my Kindle in the same way I do the ones in my garage, bedroom, bookcases, etc. I think if I come across a book I really care about, I might well wind up buying a hard copy.

01-05-2011, 03:44 PM	#23
TheKindleWorm Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 177868 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: East Anglia UK Device: Kindle 3G, iPhone 3G, iPod 4G, PB 360, Sony 600 sold, Kindle 2i sold	If you really and truly want to "own" the ebooks then removing the DRM for your own personal use is the way to go. However, I love the fact that Amazon back up all my ebook purchases and I can download to whichever Kindle app I want on my account up to the max of 6 devices. I've only ever read about one person whose ebooks somehow went missing on Amazon's servers - and in that case they were refunded for every item. So they could then be re-purchased. Amazon tend to be very good like that. I trust Amazon a whole lot more than some other ebookstores - I complained to a UK ebook store about poor formatting and they couldn't have cared less. Amazon will give you a refund.

01-05-2011, 03:52 PM	#24
screwballl NewKindler Posts: 504 Karma: 1865773 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NWFL Device: Kindle3 Wifi	This still applies to all digital formats with DRM:

01-05-2011, 04:06 PM	#26
screwballl NewKindler Posts: 504 Karma: 1865773 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NWFL Device: Kindle3 Wifi	Diap, that may have been true with Kindle 1 or 2 and/or topaz files but not with current azw/azm files. 1) I called Amazon support and they also verified the DRM "code" is determined by account, not by device. 2) To verify this, I bought a book that came as a AZW file with DRM that I downloaded from Amazon to Kindle4PC, then transferred that file from my PC directly to my Kindle via USB cord and the file worked without a problem.

01-05-2011, 04:19 PM	#29
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Diap is absolutely right. Kindle DRM is device-specific, not account-specific. A Kindle book that has been downloaded for one device will not work on another, even if both devices are registered to the same account. The only circumstance in which this would work is if the book was DRM-free, as many of the free classics at Amazon are.

01-05-2011, 04:23 PM	#30
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,509 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Thanks for the support Harry, but I'm pretty sure this one is a lost cause.

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