Amazon and B&N get heat for selling Project Gutenberg books.

[GERGE]

I don't know about Amazon but B&N Classics deserve $2 you pay for them as much as Penguins does.

People always are complaining about PD novels' prices. I don't understand why. There is extra content. I even bought some Penguin books just for that extra content.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Does anyone recall Borders doing the same thing?

Yes, borders outsource SONY's book source with their skin and SONY did a similar thing. Remember the 100 free classics SONY would give away when you would buy their eReader

Sony's actions was actually worse than B&N and Amazon since they intentionally pulled books form public domain and repacaged them for sale. Their books where horrible and had no formating

SONY however sole the works from http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/.

The real issue for me isn't so much that any of these vendors are selling PD books. It's that somebody has taken somebody else's work and sold it.

I haven't read PG license in a while but I'm pretty sure this is against the license, if so then this behavior would not be legal.

=X=

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by GERGE

I don't know about Amazon but B&N Classics deserve $2 you pay for them as much as Penguins does.

People always are complaining about PD novels' prices. I don't understand why. There is extra content. I even bought some Penguin books just for that extra content.

I downloaded over 100 B&N Classics when they were giving them away for free this past summer. I like the extra content. I only did it because they were free.

[DMSmillie]

Originally Posted by =X=

The real issue for me isn't so much that any of these vendors are selling PD books. It's that somebody has taken somebody else's work and sold it.

I haven't read PD license in a while but I'm pretty sure this is against the license, if so then this behavior would not be legal.

=X=

As far as I know, there's no such thing as a public domain licence. If something is in the public domain, it is completely unlicenced, and available for anyone to do as they wish with it (short of claiming that they wrote the original, of course).

There's nothing illegal that I'm aware of, in taking a work that is in the public domain, repackaging it, and selling it. Unprincipled, perhaps, if no work has gone into creating the new edition and there's no added value compared to whatever free versions are available, but not illegal.

- Donna

[HarryT]

I suspect that X meant "the PG licence" rather than "the PD licence". The PG licence does indeed impose restrictions on the way the file can be used, but only if the licence is retained in the file. If the licence text is removed, the file can be used in any way that the downloader wishes, including resale.

[DMSmillie]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I suspect that X meant "the PG licence" rather than "the PD licence". The PG licence does indeed impose restrictions on the way the file can be used, but only if the licence is retained in the file. If the licence text is removed, the file can be used in any way that the downloader wishes, including resale.

Ah.... I didn't think of that. Thanks for pointing that out - the reference to not having read the "PD" licence "for a while" was puzzling me a little.

- Donna

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

That's because the actual printing, warehousing, distributing etc. of these books cost money....

That's nice, but completely irrelevant.

In the same way that any publisher is entitled to release PD books at no charge, any publisher is also legally entitled to charge for PD books, and that is that.

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Tricking people into shelling money out for something that has no monetary value per se is the very definition of fraud in my jurisdiction.

Then you fail to comprehend the concept of "fraud." Unless they are selling an incomplete or blank book, there is zero deception going on here.

In many cases free versions of the PD books are available right on the site. E.g. B&N put out their own free versions of a lot of PD books; and free versions often crop up with the $0.99 PD versions.

Nor are all these offerings ripoffs. Rather than deal with 30 different copies of Shakespeare plays, I did the unthinkable and spent a whopping $2 for Shakespeare's complete works in one ebook, complete with a working table of contents, in MOBI format. To me, that $2 was well worth the time it saved me -- either in formatting it myself, or hunting down a free omnibus in the format I wanted and with a TOC.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But the "Penguin Classics" editions are pretty much as far from the "raw" PG texts as it's possible to get. They are scholarly editions, with extensive introductions, notes, and other material.

Sure. They also often put out hardcover editions. But that is, among other things, a marketing strategy.

IIRC B&N's print PD books were pretty much just the text. Signet may also have taken the same approach.

The point is that it is not illegal or unethical to charge for a public domain book. PD is completely open and unprotected, for anyone to use in any way they see fit.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

The point is that it is not illegal or unethical to charge for a public domain book. PD is completely open and unprotected, for anyone to use in any way they see fit.

Absolutely. PD means "you're free to do whatever you like with it", and that includes reselling it.

[pdurrant]

I sell three PD books at Amazon. Kim, Kidnapped and Catriona. In each case, I spent considerable time comparing editions, proof-reading, adding extra glossary entries, including PD illustrations, and formatting.

They sell moderately well*, but certainly not enough to justify the time spent in preparing them. I suspect that most of the crude PG conversions on Amazon don't sell any copies at all.

* For four weeks in November, they sold a combined total of 44 copies at Amazon, making me a grand total of about £10 for the month. And that was one of the best months since all three have been available!

[Harmon]

Okay, let's think about this a minute. You own a Kindle. You want to read Pride & Prejudice. (Again.)

(1) You can go down The Gutenberg Way, by getting on your computer, searching out Project Gutenberg, locating the book, downloading the mobi file version (if there is one), and sideloading it to your Kindle (after running it through calibre if necessary to generate the mobi file.)

(2) You can connect to Amazon via your Kindle, search for P&P, buy it for a nominal price, say, One Thin Buck, and have it ready to read in about 60 seconds.

(3) Yeah, you could use the Kindle browser to download from Project G. But you know you won't.

What Amazon is selling you is NOT the book. It is the convenience. If the convenience is not worth a buck, go the sideload route.

(As it happens, P&P is free on Amazon. I searched around for a PD ebook, & wound up with Huckleberry Finn at 99 cents. 83% of viewing buyers bought that copy, while 4% bought an 89 cent copy. So most people think a click is not worth it to save a dime, I guess. What's odd is that another 4% bought .... Dracula. I do not want to know the mental associations someone makes to move from Huck to the Count...)

[John F]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

...

Nor are all these offerings ripoffs. Rather than deal with 30 different copies of Shakespeare plays, I did the unthinkable and spent a whopping $2 for Shakespeare's complete works in one ebook, complete with a working table of contents, in MOBI format. To me, that $2 was well worth the time it saved me -- either in formatting it myself, or hunting down a free omnibus in the format I wanted and with a TOC.

What would be copyrighted in the version you bought? The table of contents, the formatting? ...

Thanks.

[GERGE]

From a legal point of view, water is free. But when you bottle it, it has some value added and can be sold.

Think of selling PD books like this. Don't look so narrowly. For example; I bought a Turkish Civil Law ebook for one dolar yesterday. Laws are free to read on the internet, but turning them into ebook would have taken time, time I could have spent on studying them, especially with mid-terms this week (By the way, ebook readers are gifts of god for law students).

Everything might be an added value, even the one hour you will save.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by John F

What would be copyrighted in the version you bought? The table of contents, the formatting? ...

Nothing. Nor is any of the content of the book subject to copyright.

"Payment" is completely separate from "copyright," and public domain books aren't required to be free.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by jasonkchapman

I get what you're saying, but that's a bit too broadly stated, as it encompasses the sale of ephemera, such as entertainment, or non-material services, such as prostitution. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes and no. If the buyer thinks he's spending money on something that really has no value at all, that's fraudulent. If he spends more than twice the actual value there are civil remedies in some jurisdictions, including mine.

Depending on the price, I might happily pay for a public domain text if it were, say, formatted in a way I wanted it without having to do it myself.

Fair enough, but we're talking about straight PG ripoffs with no added value whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Then you fail to comprehend the concept of "fraud."

How very nice of you to say so. I suppose all my years in law school have been a waste, then... (Note how I said "in my jurisdiction"?) Nevermind, EOD.