Why do people get so hot under the collar about sex in thrillers? - Page 2

Kemp · 12-02-2010, 12:10 PM

Certainly society's puritanical nature has something to do with it, but I don't think its as prominent as people think.

So often it seems like an obligatory thing, like somehow a romance or purely sexual subplot needs to develop in order for intrigue to occur in the story. You can't just throw two people in a bag and hope they eventually tussle. In the same sense, having two attractive people alone in a variety of tense or dangerous situations at a pile of romantic locations doesn't necessarily mean they're going to fall in love or simply bump uglies, but it often seems to happen.

Now that doesn't mean it can't work. Seduction was mentioned; that usually has high plot and character implication. And of course, something that does actually impact the story, and isn't simply a titillation effect, that sort of defines the line between gratuitous and, erm... tuitous.

Unfortunately, the prudish nature makes even the slightly out of place sex scene more noticed. Further from that, it's harder to make a strong justification for describing the act in explicit detail. It's sort of like nudity in television and film. Camera angles (and writing) can hide all the naughty bits, and whatever implication is strong enough for the scene to function. Why, then, choose to show it?

Madam Broshkina · 12-02-2010, 03:03 PM

If you can write great lines like this you are bound to win some type of award.

Quote:

Like a lepidopterist mounting a tough-skinned insect with a too blunt pin he screwed himself into her.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...-Campbell.html

Previous great lines:

Quote:

I find myself gripping his ears and tugging at the locks curling over them, beside myself, and a strange animal noise escapes from me as the mounting, Wagnerian crescendo overtakes me.

Quote:

I came suddenly, a jolt that emptied my head like a spoon scraping the inside of a soft-boiled egg

Worldwalker · 12-02-2010, 05:48 PM

I think it's not the prudish nature that makes a sex scene so obvious, but the fact that it's something one doesn't generally see. Most of the things people do in books are things that people generally do in public, or at do least with other people present. When it's something they don't generally do openly -- a serial killer stalking his prey, for instance -- the very doing of that act is either the focus of the book or a large part of it. So in general, anything you come across in a book is either something that generally isn't considered private, or is the focus of the book (perhaps because we're being voyeurs on something private). My hypothetical person picking up her niece at school, for instance, doesn't have to involve just the two of them; it wouldn't be unexpected if she was also driving a carless a co-worker home and picked up her sister's child too. Even the things literary characters do alone ... walking around a strange old house, perhaps ... are not considered private. They could have a party in that house instead. Sex is different, in that it is generally private, not something the reader encounters in the street on a regular basis. So when it does turn up, it becomes the elephant in the room -- or the shotgun on the wall. People notice it, just like they'd notice their roommate and his girlfriend humping on the couch much more than they'd notice the same two people eating nachos there. It's unusual, so it stands out. And when something in a book stands out (or has attention drawn to it by the author, hello cement mixer) there has to be a reason for it. The shotgun has to go off.

Basically, when an author presents something out of the ordinary, there has to be a reason for it. If the author describes a house as being painted pink with green trim, it had better be to demonstrate the eccentricity of its occupant, or function as a landmark, or in some other way serve the plot. If it's a romance novel, sex is indeed part of the plot. If it isn't, then there has to be a very good explanation why something we don't see every day has intruded on our literary lives. When there isn't, we do tend to get peeved, because we're waiting for that shotgun to go off and it never does.

Like a number of people, I keep going back to that cement mixer because it's a good analogy. Two people driving around in a cement mixer full of explosives isn't something you see every day. The author describes them and their actions various times. There's a whole subplot there. And you notice it because it's unusual: most people don't haul around truckloads of explosives (and of course it's generally a very private thing when they do). But that truck never explodes. It never does anything. The people driving it never interact with the main plot in any way. The shotgun is not only on the wall but there's a big sign pointing to it -- but it never goes off. Nobody ever even comes into that room. It weakened the book because the author spent reader attention on that subplot and then let it fizzle out, and the attention along with it.

The more private something is, the more important to the story it has to be. Sex, at least among high-tech humans, is extremely private, so when it shows up in a story, it has to be extremely important. When a reader finds that it was just gratuitously thrown in, like Tom Clancy's cement mixer, and goes nowhere, does nothing, that reader gets peeved.

sportourer1 · 12-03-2010, 12:57 PM

It is also strange that when writing a sex scene you cannot help wondering if the readers are wondering if you as the writer has done what is written or whether its a secret fantasy of the writer being laid out before them.

I have written about flying a Kerilian Space Command X10 fighter but I certainly have never done that so why should sex be different. I guess it is such an intimate act as you say, rarely seen by others.

Music&Mayhem · 12-03-2010, 08:00 PM

My characters certainly do get it on, but I don't go into the nitty gritty details.

I don't want to read about who did what to whom and where did they put such and such, and how did they do it. And I figure most people don't want to read about these details either. Borrrrring. I don't want to know the technical details about my car either. I want to go out, turn the key and have it take me where I want to go.

Same with sex.

Dialogue can be very sexy. What characters are thinking about each other can be very sexy. Anatomy lessons, not so much.

sportourer1 · 12-05-2010, 01:19 PM

It can give a thriller hero a bit of fun in their lives, they are usually such miserable sods

sportourer1 · 12-12-2010, 05:02 AM

Also a bit of challenge in what we read and write does us good!

TonyR · 12-16-2010, 12:30 PM

Music & Mayhem said:

Quote:

Dialogue can be very sexy. What characters are thinking about each other can be very sexy. Anatomy lessons, not so much.

Nails it. The anatomy lessons and the overlong descriptions of who did what to whom and how do get old, and the description that evokes a response of "Cool!" from one reader will evoke a response of "Yecchh!" from another. Unless the plot turns on such a scene, what's the point?

As for dialogue being sexy: Your mileage may vary here (in which case you can probably think of other examples on your own) but check out the 1951 science fiction classic THE THING, and pay attention to the banter between Kenneth Tobey and Margaret Sheridan.

The rest of the dialogue in that picture hasn't gathered any dust in nearly sixty years either.

Bests to all,

Tony Rabig
The Other Iron River
Acts of Faith
Ghost Writer

Vandy · 12-16-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madam Broshkina

If you can write great lines like this you are bound to win some type of award.

< snip! >

Very nice quotes, Madam -- completely and utterly descriptive without all the "naughty" verbage.

This have been quite an interesting thread from which to read and I've enjoyed it very much.

I can agree with most of what has been written -- especially the "superfluous " nature of the "stuck-in" (sorry about that - I couldn't help it...) sex scene.

After all, can you imagine how distracting a thriller / supsense would be if the hero -- having just spied the accidently (or deliberately voyeuristic) bared bosom of the beautiful damsel he is rescuing -- would suddenly be cut down by the villian because he had to take a moment to "rearrange' himself...?

Regards,

Vandy

Dodge · 12-16-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

People who like reading porn/erotica fiction probably get just as annoyed when a serial killer turns up and stabs people in the middle of sex scenes.

This matches some of the Friday the 13th movies perfectly. Granted you know what kind of movie you are going to see and you expect this behavior from Jason (the killer).

Anyways sex is good for the book if it pushes the plot in some way and/or gives insight into a character's mind/motive. If you have written a book about a guy that kicks ass on human traffickers and he gets emotionally ensnared by a prostitute... you expect some sex to take place (like my book at http://www.dodgewinston.com).

But if you are reading a book about cowboys driving cattle I wouldn't expect a sex scene... unless they swing by a bordello for an evening of fun.

My point is that it has its place if done right and their is a smooth transition but it must help the story, not detract from it.

hal2814 · 12-17-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

But if you are reading a book about cowboys driving cattle I wouldn't expect a sex scene... unless they swing by a bordello for an evening of fun.

Or if they just can't quit each other...

sportourer1 · 12-18-2010, 06:52 AM

Good point Dodge, has to be in the correct context

Music&Mayhem · 12-19-2010, 07:42 PM

[QUOTE=TonyR;1276160] As for dialogue being sexy: Your mileage may vary here (in which case you can probably think of other examples on your own) but check out the 1951 science fiction classic THE THING, and pay attention to the banter between Kenneth Tobey and Margaret Sheridan.

The rest of the dialogue in that picture hasn't gathered any dust in nearly sixty years either.

Bests to all,

Tony Rabig [Quote]

Sexy dialogue in THE THING. Who'd a thunk it?? Thanks, Tony. I'll have to check it out. (netflix?) 1951, hmmm. I just remembered another 50s flick, Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest and the scene with Cary Grant and ice princess (my take) Grace Kelly. They're having a picnic of fried chicken. Grant or Kelly, can't remember which, says completely straight-faced: Would you like a leg or a breast?

And how about Al Pacino phoning up Ellen Barkin one night in Sea of Love, asking, repeatedly: What have you got on?

The next scene is set in a supermarket with Pacino in the produce section, squeezing melons (ahem). Barkin walks in wearing a raincoat, spike heels and nothing else ... hmm. Sexy. Very sexy.

sportourer1 · 01-03-2011, 10:47 AM

Even asexuality might be a bit daring for some mainstream thriller writers

egtalbot · 02-12-2011, 10:56 PM

I find about 95% of sex scenes in otherwise good thrillers (my preferred genre) to detract from the reading. They simply don't belong. Just because a car chase or whatever is improbable doesn't mean you can throw in something else improbable in the context and assume it will fly.

Of course, people have sex all the time (and a good thing, too), but they do a boatload of other things as well that aren't in the book. i am convinced of two things:
1.Most readers don't share my bias and like the romantic interest and the culminating sex scene.
2.most authors do what most readers want.

So I accept it and enjoy the rest of the book. And I don't insert such scenes into my thrillers - the closest I've come is to show the immediate post-coital scene in a bizarre turn of events where bizarre is what I was going for.

All that said, when sex scene is done well, I actually prefer it more explicit, or at least very emotive. Unless the writing style is like a Jack Higgins or Stuart Woods that lends itself to it, simply referring to the fact that it occurred and moving on is no better than throwing the full scene in there IMO. My complaints are not about the scene, they are about the fact that the sex occurred at all in the context of the plot.

12-19-2010, 07:42 PM	#28
Music&Mayhem Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 501724 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Boston area Device: Kindle	Sexy dialogue [QUOTE=TonyR;1276160] As for dialogue being sexy: Your mileage may vary here (in which case you can probably think of other examples on your own) but check out the 1951 science fiction classic THE THING, and pay attention to the banter between Kenneth Tobey and Margaret Sheridan. The rest of the dialogue in that picture hasn't gathered any dust in nearly sixty years either. Bests to all, Tony Rabig [Quote] Sexy dialogue in THE THING. Who'd a thunk it?? Thanks, Tony. I'll have to check it out. (netflix?) 1951, hmmm. I just remembered another 50s flick, Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest and the scene with Cary Grant and ice princess (my take) Grace Kelly. They're having a picnic of fried chicken. Grant or Kelly, can't remember which, says completely straight-faced: Would you like a leg or a breast? And how about Al Pacino phoning up Ellen Barkin one night in Sea of Love, asking, repeatedly: What have you got on? The next scene is set in a supermarket with Pacino in the produce section, squeezing melons (ahem). Barkin walks in wearing a raincoat, spike heels and nothing else ... hmm. Sexy. Very sexy.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Free (Kindle) Reaching people under 40 while keeping people over 60 (Christian)	arcadata	Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links)	0	10-17-2010 07:58 AM
Any Indie Medical Thrillers?	Critteranne	Reading Recommendations	7	02-10-2010 06:00 PM
Sci-Fi Psychological Thrillers?	sam1am	Reading Recommendations	1	07-24-2008 07:37 PM

12-02-2010, 12:10 PM	#16
Kemp Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 271834 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Minnesota Device: none	Certainly society's puritanical nature has something to do with it, but I don't think its as prominent as people think. So often it seems like an obligatory thing, like somehow a romance or purely sexual subplot needs to develop in order for intrigue to occur in the story. You can't just throw two people in a bag and hope they eventually tussle. In the same sense, having two attractive people alone in a variety of tense or dangerous situations at a pile of romantic locations doesn't necessarily mean they're going to fall in love or simply bump uglies, but it often seems to happen. Now that doesn't mean it can't work. Seduction was mentioned; that usually has high plot and character implication. And of course, something that does actually impact the story, and isn't simply a titillation effect, that sort of defines the line between gratuitous and, erm... tuitous. Unfortunately, the prudish nature makes even the slightly out of place sex scene more noticed. Further from that, it's harder to make a strong justification for describing the act in explicit detail. It's sort of like nudity in television and film. Camera angles (and writing) can hide all the naughty bits, and whatever implication is strong enough for the scene to function. Why, then, choose to show it?

12-02-2010, 05:48 PM	#18
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	I think it's not the prudish nature that makes a sex scene so obvious, but the fact that it's something one doesn't generally see. Most of the things people do in books are things that people generally do in public, or at do least with other people present. When it's something they don't generally do openly -- a serial killer stalking his prey, for instance -- the very doing of that act is either the focus of the book or a large part of it. So in general, anything you come across in a book is either something that generally isn't considered private, or is the focus of the book (perhaps because we're being voyeurs on something private). My hypothetical person picking up her niece at school, for instance, doesn't have to involve just the two of them; it wouldn't be unexpected if she was also driving a carless a co-worker home and picked up her sister's child too. Even the things literary characters do alone ... walking around a strange old house, perhaps ... are not considered private. They could have a party in that house instead. Sex is different, in that it is generally private, not something the reader encounters in the street on a regular basis. So when it does turn up, it becomes the elephant in the room -- or the shotgun on the wall. People notice it, just like they'd notice their roommate and his girlfriend humping on the couch much more than they'd notice the same two people eating nachos there. It's unusual, so it stands out. And when something in a book stands out (or has attention drawn to it by the author, hello cement mixer) there has to be a reason for it. The shotgun has to go off. Basically, when an author presents something out of the ordinary, there has to be a reason for it. If the author describes a house as being painted pink with green trim, it had better be to demonstrate the eccentricity of its occupant, or function as a landmark, or in some other way serve the plot. If it's a romance novel, sex is indeed part of the plot. If it isn't, then there has to be a very good explanation why something we don't see every day has intruded on our literary lives. When there isn't, we do tend to get peeved, because we're waiting for that shotgun to go off and it never does. Like a number of people, I keep going back to that cement mixer because it's a good analogy. Two people driving around in a cement mixer full of explosives isn't something you see every day. The author describes them and their actions various times. There's a whole subplot there. And you notice it because it's unusual: most people don't haul around truckloads of explosives (and of course it's generally a very private thing when they do). But that truck never explodes. It never does anything. The people driving it never interact with the main plot in any way. The shotgun is not only on the wall but there's a big sign pointing to it -- but it never goes off. Nobody ever even comes into that room. It weakened the book because the author spent reader attention on that subplot and then let it fizzle out, and the attention along with it. The more private something is, the more important to the story it has to be. Sex, at least among high-tech humans, is extremely private, so when it shows up in a story, it has to be extremely important. When a reader finds that it was just gratuitously thrown in, like Tom Clancy's cement mixer, and goes nowhere, does nothing, that reader gets peeved.

12-03-2010, 12:57 PM	#19
sportourer1 Writer Posts: 117 Karma: 560236 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: London UK Device: none	It is also strange that when writing a sex scene you cannot help wondering if the readers are wondering if you as the writer has done what is written or whether its a secret fantasy of the writer being laid out before them. I have written about flying a Kerilian Space Command X10 fighter but I certainly have never done that so why should sex be different. I guess it is such an intimate act as you say, rarely seen by others.

12-03-2010, 08:00 PM	#20
Music&Mayhem Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 501724 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Boston area Device: Kindle	My characters certainly do get it on, but I don't go into the nitty gritty details. I don't want to read about who did what to whom and where did they put such and such, and how did they do it. And I figure most people don't want to read about these details either. Borrrrring. I don't want to know the technical details about my car either. I want to go out, turn the key and have it take me where I want to go. Same with sex. Dialogue can be very sexy. What characters are thinking about each other can be very sexy. Anatomy lessons, not so much.

12-05-2010, 01:19 PM	#21
sportourer1 Writer Posts: 117 Karma: 560236 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: London UK Device: none	It can give a thriller hero a bit of fun in their lives, they are usually such miserable sods

12-12-2010, 05:02 AM	#22
sportourer1 Writer Posts: 117 Karma: 560236 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: London UK Device: none	Also a bit of challenge in what we read and write does us good!

12-18-2010, 06:52 AM	#27
sportourer1 Writer Posts: 117 Karma: 560236 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: London UK Device: none	Good point Dodge, has to be in the correct context

01-03-2011, 10:47 AM	#29
sportourer1 Writer Posts: 117 Karma: 560236 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: London UK Device: none	Even asexuality might be a bit daring for some mainstream thriller writers

02-12-2011, 10:56 PM	#30
egtalbot Leader of the Conspiracy Posts: 16 Karma: 116 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Massachusetts Device: kindle	I find about 95% of sex scenes in otherwise good thrillers (my preferred genre) to detract from the reading. They simply don't belong. Just because a car chase or whatever is improbable doesn't mean you can throw in something else improbable in the context and assume it will fly. Of course, people have sex all the time (and a good thing, too), but they do a boatload of other things as well that aren't in the book. i am convinced of two things: 1.Most readers don't share my bias and like the romantic interest and the culminating sex scene. 2.most authors do what most readers want. So I accept it and enjoy the rest of the book. And I don't insert such scenes into my thrillers - the closest I've come is to show the immediate post-coital scene in a bizarre turn of events where bizarre is what I was going for. All that said, when sex scene is done well, I actually prefer it more explicit, or at least very emotive. Unless the writing style is like a Jack Higgins or Stuart Woods that lends itself to it, simply referring to the fact that it occurred and moving on is no better than throwing the full scene in there IMO. My complaints are not about the scene, they are about the fact that the sex occurred at all in the context of the plot.

Advert

Advert