Cuts to library spending

[Kali Yuga]

Unfortunately, for better or for worse (or both, I guess it depends on one's political views) most of the world is entering a new age of austerity. Despite the importance of libraries, especially during tough times, I don't expect they will escape the various budget cuts.

That said, I don't have a problem with a library altering its scope to extend beyond merely warehousing books and periodicals. A good library should also be a good research institution, as well as a place one can find shared cultural resources. More importantly, expanding their role isn't what threatens their existence; it's budget cuts and lack of local support.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Unfortunately, for better or for worse (or both, I guess it depends on one's political views) most of the world is entering a new age of austerity. Despite the importance of libraries, especially during tough times, I don't expect they will escape the various budget cuts.

That said, I don't have a problem with a library altering its scope to extend beyond merely warehousing books and periodicals. A good library should also be a good research institution, as well as a place one can find shared cultural resources. More importantly, expanding their role isn't what threatens their existence; it's budget cuts and lack of local support.

True, if the public will not support them (as happened here) in providing funding, then that is the will of the people....unfortunately

[Cliff Ball]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I agree completely and sorry to hear you got cut.

Thanks, not that big of a deal. It gave me the idea of trying to start my own home based business. Of course, I didn't know it was a saturated market with what I wanted to do, but, at least I tried.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Same here.....its a media center, not a library. We have vending machines with food and soda, tons of computers, 'meeting rooms' for teenagers, and the shelves are sadly lacking in books.

My local libraries (I pass three on my way home from work) have a good selection of books (but I was raised in a small town with one library that wasn't connected to any other branches...). If they don't have something I want, I request it online and it's delivered to my library within a few days, no charge. They also have a decent dvd section that I use from time to time, though their music collections are a bit lacking. They also offer downloadable audio books, music mp3s and ebooks.

But they also offer a host of other community services, like teen study/tutoring rooms, internet access and computers, a nice playground, a new baseball field, computer classes for all ages. Can you imagine looking for a job without having internet access? Or writing a research paper without a computer? I live in a part of town that's nice, but just a few blocks away it's not so nice. It's downright poor. Many people there can't afford computers or monthly internet, and some kids need a better place to go to study. It's very presumptuous to imply these services are somehow less worthy than books, or don't service the community. Just because it's some sort of new fangled media doesn't make it less valuable.

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

In the center, are stacks of the newest books by currently popular authors. Go figure.

Wait. Are you implying it's bad business to put the popular stuff in an easily accessible and visible place?

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

They refuse to shelve fiction by genre. Only by author.

"Because its too hard for our volunteers to know where a book goes"

Does anyone else remember finding wonderful new authors by browsing the 'mystery' or 'science fiction' or whatever section for hours?

Ok, that's just odd. And the volunteer excuse is pathetic. It's easy to put a sticker on the spine and know where to shelve it. Though I can certainly see why a library would have problems figuring out which genre to put a book into... many span genres and aren't easily categorized.

Originally Posted by JeremyR

The trouble is, at least where I live, libraries have long ago stopped focusing on books, but renting movies, providing internet access (providing computers, not just a hotspot), renting video games and whatnot.

Why should a publicly funded place directly compete with video rental stores/services? Or internet cafes?

Every DVD bought could have been a book. Every video game 4-5 books. But when when you look at the book stacks, it's empty and bereft of classics. More titles from William Shatner in the SF section than Isaac Asimov or Arthur C. Clarke. Never mind past authors who have faded into obscurity, but who are well worth reading.

Because those things all cost money? And it's good to give the community access to free entertainment, especially in poor neighborhoods or economically bad times? Sure, you COULD send your 8th grader to an internet cafe... wait, where's my local internet cafe? I've actually never even seen one. Where's my local video store? Oh, right, they all went out of business and the nearest one is 4 bus rides away. But I pass THREE libraries on my way home from work. And they're always bustling and there are always community events going on (family movie night, knitting night, book sale, book readings, book discussions, etc etc).

Here's an example of something going on this weekend at my library:
Technology Fair
Learn how the latest technology can enhance your library experience. See the latest technology and try hands-on demos of new items, such as the Nook, and other products associated with reading and connecting.

I am very sorry to hear about the Shatner plight at your library...

[Gwen Morse]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

I have very fond memories of my town's neighborhood library, of sometimes making the trip to the "big" library downtown, and of going to the library for research, including research on how to become a professional writer. But I have to admit, when I want to know something now, I hit the internet rather than the streets. I let my library card expire and just re-upped recently so that I could...what else?...check out ebooks.

I took advantage of an unexpected free day to drive into the Bronx to get a NYC library card (for access to their large ebook collection).

At 3:30 on a weekday, the place was *packed* with people (I had to wait in line 15 minutes to apply for my card). Every computer station was being used. Kids and teens were checking laptops in/out at a side desk for on-site use. The kids' reading area was full of kids reading and playing. There was a reasonably large collection of board games being used. It was boisterous and a bit noisy (not so loud people wouldn't be able to think, but, no one was being told to lower their voices). However, I couldn't have told you where the reference desk was, and the books in my line of sight seemed to be mostly popular reading (no visible stacks of obvious reference books).

It felt more like a community center than what I equate with a library. So, it was good to see the library being used and clearly an important resource for the community, but I still felt a little sad that it didn't have a hushed, academic aura.

My local library does maintain the strict "Quiet" rules and the research desk and research stacks are quite prominently placed near the entryway. The popular literature and kiddy room are tucked away on different floors. It's also fairly empty at any time.

[SeaBookGuy]

Gwen,

From my recollections of years ago as a New York Public Library patron, I suspect that there was probably another area with stacks and such, and the popular fiction you saw may have been the branch's holdings of "hot" 7-day books (no reserves, no renewals): latest Stephanie Plum, Grisham, etc.

I was struck by how you plan to read library e-books on devices that don't seem compatible with Overdrive (as far as I could tell).

[Bookworm_Girl]

I guess the public library experience varies largely depending on where you live. I agree with queentess's post that a library can offer a community more than just books. I can remember as a kid that my mom would take us to the library, and we would participate in story-hour while she took art classes there.

My city's library system is excellent. The downtown branch is integrated with other government buildings so there is a wide variety of community services offered both free and paid. Because the area surrounding downtown is lower-income, it offers opportunities that people might not otherwise have access to. Recently they remodeled and now have a cafe (soup, sandwiches, coffee, tea, etc) and also a gift shop. The revenue from the cafe/gift shop is used to fund library programs, services, and events. Our ebook selection is also expanding rapidly. I am fortunate to live in an area where the various cities pool together for one digital media library for the county. We even had Overdrive's traveling RV come through our area to publicize digital media services.

JeremyR, I have many good memories of time spent at the St. Louis County branches. Sorry to hear the quality isn't what it used to be there.

[SidneyW]

I went to our local library with my wife yesterday and was kind of sad to think there may be a time we don't gave shelves to browse, much as I love my Kindle. I'm afraid the cuts to libraries are not thought out.

[NVash]

My library used to be the place to be for new CDs and DVDs. Books it seemed alright but who really cared when you could grab the latest movies off the shelf instead of going to Blockbuster? Then a new problem started cropping up. People got the idea to steal the DVDs and CDs or break them. They used to have whole TV show seasons in one case, for some reason they decided to give them a case per DVD. Many TV show seasons got lost this way. The book section now, I dont know how to put it. Often when I go in there books seem missing. Whole racks are empty. I dont know what happened to them nor do I bother to ask. Maybe people have turned to books now. I went up to request some DVDs once and they told me that they got someone new in charge. This person discourages new requests and from what Ive seen apparently decides what theyd like in the library. And yes, the budget there has been cut as well. Its all rather depressing really.

[Marcy]

Originally Posted by NVash

My library used to be the place to be for new CDs and DVDs. Books it seemed alright but who really cared when you could grab the latest movies off the shelf instead of going to Blockbuster? Then a new problem started cropping up. People got the idea to steal the DVDs and CDs or break them. They used to have whole TV show seasons in one case, for some reason they decided to give them a case per DVD. Many TV show seasons got lost this way. The book section now, I dont know how to put it. Often when I go in there books seem missing. Whole racks are empty. I dont know what happened to them nor do I bother to ask. Maybe people have turned to books now. I went up to request some DVDs once and they told me that they got someone new in charge. This person discourages new requests and from what Ive seen apparently decides what theyd like in the library. And yes, the budget there has been cut as well. Its all rather depressing really.

This is due to poor management in your library. My library has tons of DVDs and CDs available. If you return the DVD damaged you have to pay for it to be replaced. If you don't return it, same thing applies.

While they have no police force to make people pay for DVDs, if you have a fee outstanding on your account you can't take out anything else.

I obviously love books, but I also appreciate the DVDs my library makes available, even if we are #54 on the waitlist for Toy Story 3.

-Marcy

[NVash]

Poor management? I dont doubt it in the least. Get this. Say you want your favorite TV show on DVD, I dont know, lets say 'Alf'. What, it was a good show in the 80s! Anyway, you go to get that. Youd see 'Alf' season 1 discs 1-4. Youd have to check out each disc individually when you request that, taking up four DVD requests. Youre only allowed a certain amount at a time. Maybe thats why they broke it apart, it used to be one whole season in one case would take one request. You request it, you get disc one and maybe a month later three then a week after that two and find out four is lost somewhere. You go to ask them to request it and they write on a Post It to request it. You see that and immediately figure it isnt getting requested. Sure enough, its never requested. Youd figure with the cuts or not theyd want to have a full collection in there. I dont blame them for not being able to allow me to see the DVDs in order. I do blame them for not having the entire set. Maybe Im getting too picky for something thats free but I really dont think thats too much to ask. Having one DVD of a whole season thats about five DVDs long is crazy. Why not just take these random DVDs out of the database? You ask them to request the missing DVD, they just cant do that, theyd have to get the whole season. Fair enough but remember the budget cuts. At this point you want to ask what moron split the DVDs apart to begin with because they just caused a problem.

Also I found the Help Desk to be very unhelpful. Awhile ago they were helpful and had many nice people there. They got some new people in and a new database. The database is okay and Id like to give them a chance because theyre learning just as the patrons are but they just have an air about them that you dont want to be patient with them and especially dont want to even ask them a question.

People dont care about the fines. When I lost a book I went out and bought a new one. A week later I found it underneath the drivers seat in the car. I felt silly and returned it. IIRC they gave me the one I gave them back. They also now discourage people purchasing copies of the stuff they have if they lose it. Well thats no good since they dont do the best of jobs replacing them. But getting back, no one cares about the fines and not being able to check out. I was there a week or so ago and a man asked me if I had a library card. I had some DVDs next to me and I was searching for the latest stuff on the library database. I figure its a given that I have one. I told the man I didnt. He tells me that he just found out he has a fine of eleven dollars and walked away sad. Im thinking how the heck does one get a fine so large? Its around a quarter every day a book or DVD is late. Think you get to keep books a month and DVDs a week. How does one amount to such a large fine? And what was he going to ask? To use my card? Heck no, I paid my fines buddy. Most people I know with huge fines though, they continue to go to the library, they just never check anything out.

They dont have any games though. Im very thankful for that. Theyre already having a hard enough time keeping DVDs in there, games are going to vanish every day. Especially if they get some big titles like 'Call Of Duty' or something like that. Why do they even need games? I can understand DVDs and maybe CDs but games?

[SidneyW]

This is a sad story:
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairba...ousts_book.php

[patrickt]

Okay, got the drill. If your government wants to cut spending, on anything, you rally your friends, make phone calls, write letters, put up signs and stop them. We are not going to cut anything. Nothing. In fact, we're just going to spend more, and more, and more. We don't ever have to pay the bills.

When I was working for a city government, we were instructed to submit a budget proposal that included a 5% cut. Everyone immediately set to work designing a budget that would impact the public as much as possible and the employees not at all. Cut travel expenses for employees? Don't be silly. We'll cut access by the public.

When asked to cut spending, the response from government is, "We'll show the bastards."

And don't let anyone trick you into having polls were different services are paired off. "Do you want really nice parks or do you want the police to write more traffic tickets?" Oh, gee, let me think. And, for some activities the proponents are psychotic. Ice hockey. Golfers. They're fanatics. Ice hockey is worse because you have hockey mothers and hockey fathers. At least with golfers you don't have their parents to contend with.

It would make more sense, to me, to look for ways to maximize the cost/service ratio for the libraries and find alternatives that are cost effective. How many people now use the reference section of a library versus the internet?

I am looking forward to the possibility of a life that is less extravagent and more responsible. Good luck. Of course, you can write letters, protest, post signs, and count on your grandchildren paying the bills.

[Marcy]

Originally Posted by NVash

Poor management? I dont doubt it in the least. Get this. Say you want your favorite TV show on DVD, I dont know, lets say 'Alf'. What, it was a good show in the 80s! Anyway, you go to get that. Youd see 'Alf' season 1 discs 1-4. Youd have to check out each disc individually when you request that, taking up four DVD requests. Youre only allowed a certain amount at a time. Maybe thats why they broke it apart, it used to be one whole season in one case would take one request. You request it, you get disc one and maybe a month later three then a week after that two and find out four is lost somewhere. You go to ask them to request it and they write on a Post It to request it. You see that and immediately figure it isnt getting requested. Sure enough, its never requested. Youd figure with the cuts or not theyd want to have a full collection in there. I dont blame them for not being able to allow me to see the DVDs in order. I do blame them for not having the entire set.

That's ridiculous. My library gives you the whole season in one go. Some of the sets have 7 DVDs in them. The set has a big sticker on it, showing the number of DVDs it contains. When you return them, they open each box, count the DVDs to make sure the right number are there and read the titles to make sure you returned the DVDs you took out. I'm sure they do this with any returned via the drop box as well.

In fact, I was once behind someone in line who was arguing because they returned a movie by just returning the case into the drop box. They had to pay the replacement fee to take out the stuff they wanted.

Originally Posted by NVash

People dont care about the fines. When I lost a book I went out and bought a new one. A week later I found it underneath the drivers seat in the car. I felt silly and returned it. IIRC they gave me the one I gave them back. They also now discourage people purchasing copies of the stuff they have if they lose it. Well thats no good since they dont do the best of jobs replacing them.

My library won't let you replace a book you lose with another book, even if it is the same. You have to pay the money. I once paid for a book and then just like you found it a couple of days later. Since they hadn't bought the replacement yet, they refunded my money minus a $2 fee.

Originally Posted by NVash

But getting back, no one cares about the fines and not being able to check out. I was there a week or so ago and a man asked me if I had a library card. I had some DVDs next to me and I was searching for the latest stuff on the library database. I figure its a given that I have one. I told the man I didnt. He tells me that he just found out he has a fine of eleven dollars and walked away sad. Im thinking how the heck does one get a fine so large? Its around a quarter every day a book or DVD is late. Think you get to keep books a month and DVDs a week. How does one amount to such a large fine? And what was he going to ask? To use my card? Heck no, I paid my fines buddy. Most people I know with huge fines though, they continue to go to the library, they just never check anything out.

But that's okay. If they don't check anything out, they can no longer lose/steal items.

I find it odd that a total stranger would ask to use your card. That takes some big brass balls. I would have been like, 'hmm, you racked up $11 of fees on your card and you want to use *my* card, a total stranger, who would then be responsible for everything you took out?????'.

Your library sounds very poorly run! I love my library. It's a pleasure to take out items and everyone there is super nice. I take out DVDs all the time too, especially movies that I wouldn't want to buy but still would like to see.

-Marcy

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by NVash

He tells me that he just found out he has a fine of eleven dollars and walked away sad. Im thinking how the heck does one get a fine so large? Its around a quarter every day a book or DVD is late. Think you get to keep books a month and DVDs a week. How does one amount to such a large fine?

My library charges 25 cents/day for overdue books and $1/day for overdue DVDs. If you have 4 overdue DVDs, that's $4/day in fines, which adds up quickly.