My take on the Kindle Store (AU Customer) :(

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by Solicitous

It doesn't make sense but it is what the publishers themselves are enforcing. Amazon and other ebookstores would love to sell us any ebook we would want, but unfortunately they are being told which countries certain ebook titles can be sold to.

Hmmm, I don't think it's slanted quite the way you're depicting, Solicitous. You make it sound like poor little Amazon is trying to do right by the customer, and the nasty publishers are making it hard for them.

It's not like that at all. The publishers here (and yes, I work with some of them, so I hear their side of the matter, at least) have issues with the terms Amazon is trying to dictate in return for the projected access its market share can provide. Amazon is screwing the publishers' and authors' cut of the deal down to almost nothing, over-valuing the access it provides and calculating profit shares on a US-centric market share model that doesn't make sense for the Australian market, and then adopting a (somewhat belligerent) "take it or leave it" stance towards the authors and publishers. Guess what? Many of them have decided to leave it, and are hoping to pick up sales through other avenues (Australian online book retailers, for instance) where they will get a fairer share of the profits.

I'm a bit disgusted at the price of ebooks overall, but in this instance my sympathies lie mostly with the Aussie publishers and authors.

[ProfCrash]

I don't know about that. From what I read, the Publishers were making more money when Amazon was setting the price then they are now that they are setting the price. Why? Because the Publishers pay a higher percentage to Amazon now.

Truth be told, the go restrictions have nothing to do with Amazon. The reality is that when an Author signs a contract for a book, he grants the Publisher rights to publish the book. The geo restrictions come into play because very few publishers, I think actually no Publisher, signs an author to a contract that covers every countries market. Most Publishers sign a contract for a specific country.

So a book that is available in the US may not be available in Australia because the US Publisher does can sell the book in the US but not Australia. The Australian Publisher has to make the decision to publish the book in Australia.

This is a pain for everyone. The Girl with the Tattoo books were available in Europe long before they were available in the US.

Amazon is not allowed to chose to ignore the contracts between the Author and the Publisher. Amazon can only sell those books in the markets that the contract allows. I have no idea why people have been able to buy pbooks and have them shipped to Australia. My guess is because there is a physical book that is in Amazon's possession and hence it is available for sale as opposed to the digital book that make up an e-book.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I don't know about that.

Sorry - don't know about what?

I told you how it is here, and I don't see anything in your post that actually has any bearing on what I said, other than to apparently be assuming that i was blaming geographical restrictions on Amazon. Prof, I recognise everything that you've said, but Amazon is responsible for the deal it negotiates for Australia with the publishers who own the distribution rights in this region. Those publishers have generally declined the terms of Amazon's deal, which is why many books that are available in the US (even Australian books) aren't available for purchase here.

And the "Girl with the Tattoo" books were written in Europe, and first published in English in Britain. Why do you think it's significant they were available there before they were available in the US?

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Sorry - don't know about what?

I told you how it is here, and I don't see anything in your post that actually has any bearing on what I said, other than to apparently be assuming that i was blaming geographical restrictions on Amazon. Prof, I recognise everything that you've said, but Amazon is responsible for the deal it negotiates for Australia with the publishers who own the distribution rights in this region. Those publishers have generally declined the terms of Amazon's deal, which is why many books that are available in the US (even Australian books) aren't available for purchase here.

And the "Girl with the Tattoo" books were written in Europe, and first published in English in Britain. Why do you think it's significant they were available there before they were available in the US?

My point is that the Publishers choose release dates not the company. The Harry Potter books were released on the same day throughout Europe and the US. The Publishers were willing to coordinate their efforts. Seig Larson (sp I am sure) Publishers choose to release them at different times. I am sure there was a marketing decision that influenced the release dates but they were available months in advance in Europe. I know folks who bought the books from Amazon UK because they couldn't wait to read the last book. The release date had nothing to do with where the book was written but when the Publishers wanted to release the book.

From what I have been reading on the boards, Amazon is not the only one who has a limited number of e-books available for Australia. Which means that the problem is not with Amazon but with the Publishers. The number of folks who have said that before they bought e-readers they had to have books shipped by Amazon to them from the US because those books were not available in Australia, tells me that the problem with Australian Publishers has existed for a while and is not just an e-book thing.

If Amazon was the problem and Sony sold every book in its library to Australians, I am sure that more people in Australia would buy Sonys. Heck, international e-readers are probably hard to come by precisely because of the problems with e-book rights and distribution in many countries. Amazon's selection may be bad but it is better then Barnes and Nobles.

Amazon is a convienent target because it is the store front. The reality is that Amazon can only sell what it is allowed to sell by Australian Publishing Houses. If those Publishing Houses were not making books available in paper form and e-book form, why blame Amazon? Or Sony? Or any other e-book store that is accessible in Australia.

If you are having problems with geo restrictions, write the Publishers. They are the ones holding up books. I am sure that Amazon or Sony or Waterstones would love to sell books to who ever wants to give them money for those books. They can't sell what is not in their stores.

[Pushka]

My husband is an author published through a very large US based publishing company. His books are available in paperback only, even though he has signed off to publish in electronic format. The publisher has finally published one book in the US ( previously only Australia) and just made the second one available. But not in ebook format. From what I can see, delays in reproducing books worldwide rest soley with the publisher and not the distributor.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

If you are having problems with geo restrictions, write the Publishers. They are the ones holding up books. I am sure that Amazon or Sony or Waterstones would love to sell books to who ever wants to give them money for those books. They can't sell what is not in their stores.

You either didn't read a word I wrote, or you're just being deliberately bloody obtuse.

What does that achieve?

[Pushka]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

You either didn't read a word I wrote, or you're just being deliberately bloody obtuse.

What does that achieve?

I agree with the Prof, does that make me obtuse too just because I dont agree with you?
Read this for a start:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/aust...-1225864694693

It's not the fault of Amazon or other e-reader makers. The restrictions result from the age-old territorial copyright issues imposed by global book publishers, and there seems little chance that this will change any time soon.

Our No 1 competition watchdog and fearless prosecutor of big business was, he said, "increasingly frustrated by the restrictions (laid down by publishers) about what I can download to my Kindle simply because I'm an Australian resident".

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by Pushka

I agree with the Prof, does that make me obtuse too just because I dont agree with you?

Oh please. It wasn't about agreeing with me.

I wasn't posting about the geographic restrictions. Yes, they're created by publishing deals, though not deliberately by the publishers. It's because companies, anywhere in the world, have limited territoriality. Trying to phrase that as being the publishers' "fault" is verging on churlish.

Given that there are restrictions, I was posting about why Amazon hadn't negotiated past those restrictions here in this region. It's all down to Amazon's 500-pound gorilla tactics. The Prof saying "I don't know about that" and then posting about a different aspect of the issue as if that invalidated what I'd said, meant that he, and now you, are saying oranges invalidate apples.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Oh please. It wasn't about agreeing with me.

I wasn't posting about the geographic restrictions. Yes, they're created by publishing deals, though not deliberately by the publishers. It's because companies, anywhere in the world, have limited territoriality. Trying to phrase that as being the publishers' "fault" is verging on churlish.

Given that there are restrictions, I was posting about why Amazon hadn't negotiated past those restrictions here in this region. It's all down to Amazon's 500-pound gorilla tactics. The Prof saying "I don't know about that" and then posting about a different aspect of the issue as if that invalidated what I'd said, meant that he, and now you, are saying oranges invalidate apples.

Try using small words. That might help. Explain how Amazon is suppose to negotiate the rights to sell books that the Publishers are not making available. While you are at it, try explaining why Sony and Waterstone and other large book stores are not negotiating to make those books available.

I include Waterstone because they use to sell books without worrying about geo restrictions but have recently stopped doing so and have notified customers that they cannot sell the books because it is illegal.

So please explain to me how this is Amazons fault in small words. I promise to use a dictionary to look up anything I don't understand.

[Pushka]

In Australia the geographic restrictions are enmeshed with our Federal Laws. Barnes and Noble are worthy of your ire; they wont even mail the Nook to Australia.

[Solicitous]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Hmmm, I don't think it's slanted quite the way you're depicting, Solicitous. You make it sound like poor little Amazon is trying to do right by the customer, and the nasty publishers are making it hard for them.

It's not like that at all. The publishers here (and yes, I work with some of them, so I hear their side of the matter, at least) have issues with the terms Amazon is trying to dictate in return for the projected access its market share can provide. Amazon is screwing the publishers' and authors' cut of the deal down to almost nothing, over-valuing the access it provides and calculating profit shares on a US-centric market share model that doesn't make sense for the Australian market, and then adopting a (somewhat belligerent) "take it or leave it" stance towards the authors and publishers. Guess what? Many of them have decided to leave it, and are hoping to pick up sales through other avenues (Australian online book retailers, for instance) where they will get a fairer share of the profits.

I'm a bit disgusted at the price of ebooks overall, but in this instance my sympathies lie mostly with the Aussie publishers and authors.

Ok thats a fine argument, but why are other ebookstores in the same boat? Why do I find I go to Amazon.com and see an ebook geographically restricted, then go to say kobobooks.com and find the same title geo restricted? Kobo isn't owned nor contracted with Amazon, so if Amazon are making life difficult for the publishers, then why aren't they making deals with other sellers??? I still don't understand, if Amazon are making life difficult for the publishers, then why are they selling to Amazon restricting to certain geo areas and not others, why not just sell the ebook to the world or part ways and go through another ebook store?

I have no doubt that Amazon would be trying to make the best profit for themselves on an ebook sale, but if Amazon are too big and want too much.....well there are many other stores that might be a little more forgiving.

[thinkpad]

Originally Posted by Pushka

My husband is an author published through a very large US based publishing company. His books are available in paperback only, even though he has signed off to publish in electronic format. The publisher has finally published one book in the US ( previously only Australia) and just made the second one available. But not in ebook format. From what I can see, delays in reproducing books worldwide rest soley with the publisher and not the distributor.

That must be very frustrating as an author, and I guess a lot of other authors are in the same situation. One thing that strikes me though, wouldn't it be easier as an author to just keep the e-book rights and offer them directly to Amazon and all the other big distribution channels or is this prevented when signing an agreement with publishers for the print edition.

[lene1949]

I don't worry much about Geo Restrictions... Why not look at what IS available, rather than what is NOT...

[desertblues]

Originally Posted by lene1949

I don't worry much about Geo Restrictions... Why not look at what IS available, rather than what is NOT...

Rather a quick look?

[thinkpad]

Although this article is a bit old its still relevant about the struggle for the authors to keep the rights to their backlist where the original contract said nothing about the publishers getting the right to the e-book:
http://www.doctorsyntax.net/2009/12/...lly-begun.html

But the timing kerfuffle was minor compared to the dustup that broke out on Friday when Random House CEO Markus Dohle declared, with chutzpah one can only admire, that the house controls e-book rights for thousands of backlist titles whose contracts made no mention of such rights. This was drawing a line far out in the sand. Dohle’s bold assertion is, essentially, that e-books are just another kind of “book,” so the contractual language that gives Random exclusivity over all editions of a work includes e-books—even though they had not been invented at the time most of these contracts were signed.

Another interesting take on the whole subject:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/prosp...ng_deal_amazon

So Mr Wylie’s announcement last week of a deal with Amazon to publish electronic versions of books by several of his authors has understandably been viewed by the traditional publishers that he will bypass as a declaration of war.

Mr Wylie is starting by publishing electronic versions of some classics, such as Mr Roth’s “Portnoy’s Complaint” and Updike’s “Rabbit” novels. Some publishers argue that they own the electronic rights to such classics, under contracts signed before anyone thought there would be electronic books—an ownership claim that authors and their agents vigorously dispute.