Content Forward button - Page 2

jscarbo · 11-15-2013, 11:43 AM

The new PW2 has made significant changes in the way you navigate and jump back and forth in a book (called page flip) and for reading footnotes without losing your place in the book. I'm still using the original PW and haven't had a chance to try the PW2 but it should be a great improvement.

retvek · 11-15-2013, 11:49 AM

Thank you very much both I_macd and jscarbo. Yes, I heard about the "page flip" function but probably that is not what I need based on what I_macd wrote and since the footnotes I referred to are not in amazon-release kindle books but pdf's converted to mobi's.

E.g. read the main text on pages [or location, of course] 11 and continue to 12, 13, 14...
While constantly jumping to pages 211, 212, 213 (for footnotes, references etc.)
With a "proper" back and forward function that would be instantaneous.

Victoria · 11-16-2013, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertblues

Good idea.
It has happen to me also often that I push on the Back and than to get back to where I was, it seriously can interrupt my 'flow of thought' while reading.
Will also ask Amazon to consider an Alt+Back button.

Happens occasionally to me as well. Usually hitting the back arrow will retrace your steps and return to the previous location; however, not always, so I bookmark my spot before exploring other places.

I think the purpose of the back arrow is to retrace steps - forward or backward in the book. But having a forward arrow would be a nice addition.

HarryT · 11-16-2013, 09:17 AM

The "Back" button undoes the result of the last "jump", whether it be to a footnote, an entry in the table of contents, etc, so if you jump to a footnote, pressing "Back" will take you back to where you jumped to it from. I honestly can't see the need for a "Forward" button - what would it do?

retvek · 11-20-2013, 05:19 AM

Sorry for the late reply. HarryT: if it were doing only that, yes, it would be ok. But (I am using a K3, OS 3.4) here is what happens:

I read p. 5. There is a footnote (not rendered as a link, so I have to find the location), I find the corresponding page and read the footnote. Go back to the main text.
Things are fine up until this point. Yet, on p. 6 there is another footnote; so I need to go back ["forward"] to the notes section again. But when I press the back button to do that, Kindle goes to the home screen.

So, you have to find the location again and again.

Similar to what Victoria wrote: Bookmarking would be an interim solution (interim because one reads forward in the notes section as well whereas bookmarks are fixed), yet bookmarks are mixed with "notes" (again on a 3.4); so finding the relevant bookmark becomes harder and harder...

HarryT · 11-20-2013, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retvek

Sorry for the late reply. HarryT: if it were doing only that, yes, it would be ok. But (I am using a K3, OS 3.4) here is what happens:

I read p. 5. There is a footnote (not rendered as a link, so I have to find the location), I find the corresponding page and read the footnote. Go back to the main text.
Things are fine up until this point. Yet, on p. 6 there is another footnote; so I need to go back ["forward"] to the notes section again. But when I press the back button to do that, Kindle goes to the home screen.

So, you have to find the location again and again.

Similar to what Victoria wrote: Bookmarking would be an interim solution (interim because one reads forward in the notes section as well whereas bookmarks are fixed), yet bookmarks are mixed with "notes" (again on a 3.4); so finding the relevant bookmark becomes harder and harder...

The weakness there is that your book doesn't have footnotes as links. If you have links, as any decent ebook should have, the "Back" button works as intended (click the link to read the footnote, then the "Back" button to get back to the main text). This is really a fault with the book you're reading, rather than with the Kindle.

retvek · 11-20-2013, 05:48 AM

Fault with the book? Ok

I stated at the very beginning that this is an issue not for amazon-released kindle books but for pdf's converted to mobi's (including those converted by amazon software). Amazon may stop converting "faulty books" in the first place. Then such issues would not arise of course

HarryT · 11-20-2013, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retvek

Fault with the book? Ok

I stated at the very beginning that this is an issue not for amazon-released kindle books.

Nothing to do with Amazon. Any properly-created ebook should have hyperlinks for footnotes. I create innumerable ebooks myself (see the library area here at MR), and they all have links. It's pure laziness on the part of the book creator not to use them.

retvek · 11-20-2013, 06:04 AM

Sure, that would be ideal. Yet currently many ebooks don't have them (nor does amazon conversion necessarily render linked notes in a pdf properly); books we scan on our own don't have them either.

I think a rather simple "forward" button (which many desktop readers have) would be an easier solution than waiting for everyone to create ebooks with linked notes...

P.s.: great that you link the notes in the ebooks you create and which you contribute to the library here. Yet, I really don't think I would link each of the 150 notes (a modest estimate) on a typical social science book to read it on kindle.

HarryT · 11-20-2013, 08:14 AM

I do appreciate the point you're making; I just don't think Amazon are likely to do anything about it, because the proper way to jump within a book is to use a hyperlink.

The "page flip" feature of the PW2 makes all this an awful lot easier, as I believe someone else has already said.

retvek · 11-20-2013, 01:28 PM

Yes, I understand...

Here is a makeshift solution by the way --far from ideal but the quickest in my experience-- in case anyone checks the thread here with the same problem: Just load the relevant book to the device twice: One for reading the main text, the other for the notes sections. Switch between the two copies for the main text/ notes.

tomsem · 11-21-2013, 05:36 AM

If the book does not have proper hyperlinks, perhaps setting a bookmark at the beginning of the notes section will improve navigation to that location. Then you can go there via the View Notes & Marks menu item, which will open a list of Notes and Bookmarks. That list can be filtered to show just Bookmarks, once you have one or more Bookmarks set (tap menu for Show... options and pick Your Bookmarks), and after that View Notes & Marks will list only bookmarks until you change the Show... option (or Kindle restarts). Same can be done for books without NCX to simulate a chapter list that you can use to navigate.

Until I discovered the Notes and Marks list filter (it is one of the more obscure Kindle features), I was rather miffed that bookmarks could be so useless as ad hoc navigation points. But it is not really that bad after all.

Pop up footnotes (again depends on having proper hyperlinks) of the PW2 and hopefully on other devices in the future save a lot of jumping around in the book.

But I'd love to be able to split the screen and display two different locations in the book, or two different books, and be able to jump more easily between books (I guess HDX has something like the latter, anybody use that?).

retvek · 11-22-2013, 03:24 AM

Thanks tomsem, I didn't know that, will try with k3.

eschwartz · 11-22-2013, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l_macd

No this kind of forward function doesn't exist. In fact, it is only with the newly released Paperwhite that there is even a function to jump forward a chapter at a time, even that has been missing from the touch screen Kindle's up until now.

I've been able to swipe up/down on my KT since the beginning to skip to the next/previous chapter. In fact, Amazon's deliberate removal of this in the KPW1 (they said it just confused people) was one of the reasons why I decided I didn't want the PW "upgrade".

Now they've added it back?

11-20-2013, 05:19 AM	#20
retvek Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: k3, dx	Sorry for the late reply. HarryT: if it were doing only that, yes, it would be ok. But (I am using a K3, OS 3.4) here is what happens: I read p. 5. There is a footnote (not rendered as a link, so I have to find the location), I find the corresponding page and read the footnote. Go back to the main text. Things are fine up until this point. Yet, on p. 6 there is another footnote; so I need to go back ["forward"] to the notes section again. But when I press the back button to do that, Kindle goes to the home screen. So, you have to find the location again and again. Similar to what Victoria wrote: Bookmarking would be an interim solution (interim because one reads forward in the notes section as well whereas bookmarks are fixed), yet bookmarks are mixed with "notes" (again on a 3.4); so finding the relevant bookmark becomes harder and harder... Last edited by retvek; 11-20-2013 at 05:21 AM.

11-20-2013, 05:48 AM	#22
retvek Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: k3, dx	Fault with the book? Ok I stated at the very beginning that this is an issue not for amazon-released kindle books but for pdf's converted to mobi's (including those converted by amazon software). Amazon may stop converting "faulty books" in the first place. Then such issues would not arise of course Last edited by retvek; 11-20-2013 at 05:51 AM.

11-20-2013, 06:04 AM	#24
retvek Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: k3, dx	Sure, that would be ideal. Yet currently many ebooks don't have them (nor does amazon conversion necessarily render linked notes in a pdf properly); books we scan on our own don't have them either. I think a rather simple "forward" button (which many desktop readers have) would be an easier solution than waiting for everyone to create ebooks with linked notes... P.s.: great that you link the notes in the ebooks you create and which you contribute to the library here. Yet, I really don't think I would link each of the 150 notes (a modest estimate) on a typical social science book to read it on kindle. Last edited by retvek; 11-20-2013 at 06:13 AM.

11-21-2013, 05:36 AM	#27
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,940 Karma: 27060151 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	If the book does not have proper hyperlinks, perhaps setting a bookmark at the beginning of the notes section will improve navigation to that location. Then you can go there via the View Notes & Marks menu item, which will open a list of Notes and Bookmarks. That list can be filtered to show just Bookmarks, once you have one or more Bookmarks set (tap menu for Show... options and pick Your Bookmarks), and after that View Notes & Marks will list only bookmarks until you change the Show... option (or Kindle restarts). Same can be done for books without NCX to simulate a chapter list that you can use to navigate. Until I discovered the Notes and Marks list filter (it is one of the more obscure Kindle features), I was rather miffed that bookmarks could be so useless as ad hoc navigation points. But it is not really that bad after all. Pop up footnotes (again depends on having proper hyperlinks) of the PW2 and hopefully on other devices in the future save a lot of jumping around in the book. But I'd love to be able to split the screen and display two different locations in the book, or two different books, and be able to jump more easily between books (I guess HDX has something like the latter, anybody use that?). Last edited by tomsem; 11-21-2013 at 05:58 AM.

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11-15-2013, 11:43 AM	#16
jscarbo Addict Posts: 220 Karma: 1075434 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Costa Rica Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle PW2, Nook HD+, Nexus 7	The new PW2 has made significant changes in the way you navigate and jump back and forth in a book (called page flip) and for reading footnotes without losing your place in the book. I'm still using the original PW and haven't had a chance to try the PW2 but it should be a great improvement.

11-15-2013, 11:49 AM	#17
retvek Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: k3, dx	Thank you very much both I_macd and jscarbo. Yes, I heard about the "page flip" function but probably that is not what I need based on what I_macd wrote and since the footnotes I referred to are not in amazon-release kindle books but pdf's converted to mobi's. E.g. read the main text on pages [or location, of course] 11 and continue to 12, 13, 14... While constantly jumping to pages 211, 212, 213 (for footnotes, references etc.) With a "proper" back and forward function that would be instantaneous.

11-16-2013, 09:17 AM	#19
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,545 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The "Back" button undoes the result of the last "jump", whether it be to a footnote, an entry in the table of contents, etc, so if you jump to a footnote, pressing "Back" will take you back to where you jumped to it from. I honestly can't see the need for a "Forward" button - what would it do?

11-20-2013, 08:14 AM	#25
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,545 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I do appreciate the point you're making; I just don't think Amazon are likely to do anything about it, because the proper way to jump within a book is to use a hyperlink. The "page flip" feature of the PW2 makes all this an awful lot easier, as I believe someone else has already said.

11-20-2013, 01:28 PM	#26
retvek Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: k3, dx	Yes, I understand... Here is a makeshift solution by the way --far from ideal but the quickest in my experience-- in case anyone checks the thread here with the same problem: Just load the relevant book to the device twice: One for reading the main text, the other for the notes sections. Switch between the two copies for the main text/ notes.

11-22-2013, 03:24 AM	#28
retvek Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: k3, dx	Thanks tomsem, I didn't know that, will try with k3.

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