Never ... ever ... ever read The Farseer Trilogy! - Page 2

Iridal · 11-01-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunixer

Yes, he was loyal. That could be considered a positive trait, but he had so many loyalties that he was divided. He threatened the kingdom by going with Molly, then left her because he was loyal to Verity and the kingdom, then retracted that loyalty again when he discovered his baby. Seems a little contradictory.

I don't remember Fitz ever abandoning Verity. I mean, he walked all the way to that Elderling place to help him with his quest. It's true that he's divided between his loyalty to his King and Molly at first. But he leaves Molly because he thinks there's another man in her life and he wants her to be happy. Not because he chooses his King over her. And I think in the end he was loyal to both Verity and Molly. He helped his king. He decided to leave Molly alone so she could be happy with Burrich.

At least that's how I see it. In the end liking or not liking a book is very personal.

Quote:

He's bad at the Wit compared to those people he met in the woods.

Yeah, it's a little difficult for me to distinguish between the Assassin trilogy and the Tawny Man trilogy. In the second trilogy he gets more training, and finds out he's really strong at the Wit. Stronger than most of the other witted he knows.

Quote:

And a message to all authors out there: a dumb character (or entire cast of idiots) is not an excuse for poorly hidden plot elements.

Well, I certainly wouldn't call Fitz dumb. But again, a personal opinion

Quote:

People DO love Fitz (and rely on him, although that becomes more apparent in the second trilogy), but he often doesn't realize it/believe it

I think this is pretty apparent in the Assassin trilogy as well. Chade, Burrich, Molly, Kettricken, the fool (of course). They all love him dearly.

lunixer · 11-01-2010, 04:59 PM

All right, I guess you've convinced me. I'll at least try the other trilogies. Should I read Tawny Man or Liveship Traders first?

GlennD · 11-01-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunixer

All right, I guess you've convinced me. I'll at least try the other trilogies. Should I read Tawny Man or Liveship Traders first?

The Liveship trilogy becomes relevant during the Tawny Man trilogy, so I would read that first. Also, that'll let you decide if it's just Fitz you don't like, or Hobb's writing in general. No sense in reading a series you don't like.

Iridal · 11-01-2010, 05:05 PM

I would recommend you read the Liveship Traders first. That's the way Robin Hobb wrote them: Assassins - Liveship traders - Tawny Man.

The Liveship trader trilogy isn't about Fitz so you might like them better

Also, reading the liveships first will help you understand a lot of the things that will pop up in the Tawny Man trilogy.

Iridal · 11-01-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennD

Also, that'll let you decide if it's just Fitz you don't like, or Hobb's writing in general. No sense in reading a series you don't like.

I was going to edit this into my previous post, but you beat me to it

Penforhire · 11-01-2010, 07:44 PM

I've only read the first Farseer book but my own impression disagrees greatly with the OP's. I enjoyed it and plan to continue the series. The pacing is VERY slow but I was immersed in the world she weaves. Fitz is an awkward semi-failure on many fronts. That makes him human and charming, at least to me. His lack of emotions, or really good control of displaying them, bothers me but he's not uber-man even then (he got obviously depressed at one point). He has an uneducated drive to do the right thing, if he only knew what it was, and at least in the first book his loyalty is unwaivering.

I do notice this series singled out for hate by enough people that you're not weird or anything, lol. It surely does disagree with some. Kind of how I feel about The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (I want my many hours of reading them back!) yet there are folks who love that series too.

GreenMonkey · 11-02-2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iridal

I don't remember Fitz ever abandoning Verity. I mean, he walked all the way to that Elderling place to help him with his quest. It's true that he's divided between his loyalty to his King and Molly at first. But he leaves Molly because he thinks there's another man in her life and he wants her to be happy. Not because he chooses his King over her. And I think in the end he was loyal to both Verity and Molly. He helped his king. He decided to leave Molly alone so she could be happy with Burrich.

Yup.

He's very loyal to Verity. He wants to help Verity but he's asked to stay behind and take care of Kettricken and others instead (since it's obvious to Verity that Regal would do her in). Kettricken is principled, too principled for the kind of nasty court intrigue that Regal is practicing. Fitz helps her navigate the court intrigue - without him, she'd have been isolated and alone (and doomed) in short order. Fitz is left behind to help her, also so that Verity can stay at home via Fitz's skill link as long as possible.

Quote:

I think this is pretty apparent in the Assassin trilogy as well. Chade, Burrich, Molly, Kettricken, the fool (of course). They all love him dearly.

Yup. He's a good kid at heart. He tries to do right - but he screws it up a lot because he's stubborn, and a bit of a hothead. He has trouble believing that people won't hurt him. He's an abandoned youngster, and he's never really given a new family. Burrich takes care of him, but he's a toddler with no parents. How do those kids often turn out? Fitz does alright for himself. Like Burrich says though, he makes decisions like a kid, without fully thinking through the consequences, and often refusing to acknowledge that the older folks might have some wisdom behind their decisions. Sounds like a teen to me.

He's kept under Burrich's thumb and away from the kids in town, so he's not so hot at making friends. He's thrust into a role of killing and sneaking, not because he wanted it, but because he is told to do it.

He's loyal to King Shrewd also, ever since he gives him his pin. If you read the book it's apparent all he really wanted was his grandpa to say he loves him, and he'd do anything for him. Instead, Shrewd makes a deal with him.

As far as Molly - he does his best by her, sort of (as best as you can expect for a teen) but King Shrewd will not OK him getting married to her. It's his first love, but he's a bastard...and marrying for love not so cool with the folks in charge.

In the same way, Burrich is full of contradictions like Fitz. He did kinda raise Fitz after all. He's very loyal, maybe too loyal, like a dog, as he often compares himself. He's stubborn like Fitz. And he's an alcoholic - maybe a functioning one, but still - he's got a big problem with drinking. He also had the same sort of thing happen as Fitz - he wanted to marry his love (Patience) but it didn't work out how he wanted.

The reason I love these is it isn't really traditional heroic fantasy. It's more a story of court intrigue and of flawed, realistic characters than anything else.

Iridal · 11-02-2010, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penforhire

I do notice this series singled out for hate by enough people that you're not weird or anything, lol. It surely does disagree with some. Kind of how I feel about The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (I want my many hours of reading them back!) yet there are folks who love that series too.

That's true, I've noticed this is as well. You either love them or you hate them. There's no in between

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

The reason I love these is it isn't really traditional heroic fantasy. It's more a story of court intrigue and of flawed, realistic characters than anything else.

Definitely ! I read a lot of fantasy, mostly heroic fantasy and epic fantasy. But after a while you feel like you've read it all. The world is in danger, a hero arises and saves the world, usually making some unlikely friends in the process. So it's a relief to read books like the Assassin Trilogy.

I've read all 9 of them (Assassins - Liveship Traders - Tawny Man) two times now, just one after the other. I'll probably reread all of them again in the future. They're my favourites, along with the Dark Tower Series (which I'm going to reread during my Christmas holiday

)

JeremyR · 11-05-2010, 02:36 AM

The Widowmaker series by Mike Resnick is a pretty good SF about assassins. Also pretty interesting take on cloning.

Thjan · 11-05-2010, 05:17 AM

I was also dissapointed with the Farseer trilogy. Especially the black and white character drawing was very boring. All the characters felt dull. I have to admit that I skipped most of the third book because of that.

Now I will give Brent Weeks' "Night Angel" trilogy a try when I am done with the SF book I am currently reading. Or maybe I try Joe Abercrombie first.

queentess · 11-05-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thjan

I was also dissapointed with the Farseer trilogy. Especially the black and white character drawing was very boring. All the characters felt dull. I have to admit that I skipped most of the third book because of that.

Now I will give Brent Weeks' "Night Angel" trilogy a try when I am done with the SF book I am currently reading. Or maybe I try Joe Abercrombie first.

I didn't get very far into Abercrombie's series, despite all the positive reviews and personal recommendations. That said, I loved Farseer (and really anything by Hobb except the Rain Wilds series), so maybe you're on the right track

Iridal · 11-07-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thjan

Now I will give Brent Weeks' "Night Angel" trilogy a try when I am done with the SF book I am currently reading. Or maybe I try Joe Abercrombie first.

Night Angel Trilogy highly recommended

. You might want to consider Brent Weeks' second series as well. The first book was published recently: The Black Prism.

Xanthe · 11-07-2010, 05:34 PM

Never read the series. The covers feature animals and that Kiss of Death for me - a dragon. I've got nothing against animals, as long as they are in their place - tied up in the backyard.

I am soooo not into the whole dragon genre at all.

aristotle9 · 12-12-2011, 04:27 PM

The fact that you mention Goodkind without qualifying that only the first book in his series is anything but terrible pretty much disqualifies your opinion.

First off, there is NO Deus Ex Machina in the end of this series. Deus Ex Machina is "a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object." Getting the Elderlings to come and kick the raiders asses was the projected resolution throughout the series, so that is out. Or perhaps you refer to swapping bodies with Fitz and Verity? Still does not qualify because taking control of or the sharing of another's body was part of the skill over and over again in these novels.

If you want to see Deus Ex Macina and since you like Goodkind, try "sticking the Sword of Truth in the Boxes of Orden" on for size - perhaps the most contrived ending of a series ever put to paper. He might just as well have written "and Richard opened his eyes and realized it was all a dream!" Hobb suffers from no such issue.

And are you really critcising a story about a highly traumatized teenager, written in first person, that he didnt self identify enough of his good qualities? Really? Its a key component of his character that he has issues of self worth. Its what make him believable and worth reading about. Perhaps instead of being a struggeling teen, he could of been the greatest swordsman AND the greatest wizard AND the greatest philosopher AND the greatest small businessman AND the greatest sculpter AND the greates pseudo-rugby player to ever live! But alas, we can't all be as perfect as Richard Rhal!

The two criticism that holds in these books is that A) the last book could have a good deal less "Fitz in the wilderness" stuff and B) instead given those pages over to expanding the end of the story to make more of important things like losing Molly, or falling for Starling, etc. Of course you're not allowed make that criticism either if you like Goodkind as he nearly killed us all with neverending trek back from the Pillars of Creation, the completely pointless Game of Life matches and the afformentioned absurd 5 page series tie up that can be summed up by "and in an inextricable random bit of wackiness, Dick decides to stab the box with the sword, becomes omnipotent, and make everything better." Goodkind... please!

aristotle9 · 12-12-2011, 04:42 PM

Sorry, one last point. Propehcy was NOT the reason Fitz went on his quest. I too am tired of that plot schema, but it does not apply here. Prophecy drove The Fool, but not Fitz. Fitz, Verity, Regal, the Red Ships, nor anyone other than The Fool (and minor character Kettle) make any decisions with any prophecy in mind. Fitz starts the quest in the last book to kill Regal (no prophecy there) and finishes the quest because Verity called for him and duty drives him. How can you highlight the inclusion of prophecy as a flaw in a story by first calling out WOT and SOT as series you like? These are some of the most prophecy driven books ever written. Its like saying that your favorite book is the Bible but then go on to say that you are sick of relgious texts.

12-12-2011, 04:27 PM	#29
aristotle9 Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: none	Deus Ex Machina? Do you understand what that means? The fact that you mention Goodkind without qualifying that only the first book in his series is anything but terrible pretty much disqualifies your opinion. First off, there is NO Deus Ex Machina in the end of this series. Deus Ex Machina is "a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object." Getting the Elderlings to come and kick the raiders asses was the projected resolution throughout the series, so that is out. Or perhaps you refer to swapping bodies with Fitz and Verity? Still does not qualify because taking control of or the sharing of another's body was part of the skill over and over again in these novels. If you want to see Deus Ex Macina and since you like Goodkind, try "sticking the Sword of Truth in the Boxes of Orden" on for size - perhaps the most contrived ending of a series ever put to paper. He might just as well have written "and Richard opened his eyes and realized it was all a dream!" Hobb suffers from no such issue. And are you really critcising a story about a highly traumatized teenager, written in first person, that he didnt self identify enough of his good qualities? Really? Its a key component of his character that he has issues of self worth. Its what make him believable and worth reading about. Perhaps instead of being a struggeling teen, he could of been the greatest swordsman AND the greatest wizard AND the greatest philosopher AND the greatest small businessman AND the greatest sculpter AND the greates pseudo-rugby player to ever live! But alas, we can't all be as perfect as Richard Rhal! The two criticism that holds in these books is that A) the last book could have a good deal less "Fitz in the wilderness" stuff and B) instead given those pages over to expanding the end of the story to make more of important things like losing Molly, or falling for Starling, etc. Of course you're not allowed make that criticism either if you like Goodkind as he nearly killed us all with neverending trek back from the Pillars of Creation, the completely pointless Game of Life matches and the afformentioned absurd 5 page series tie up that can be summed up by "and in an inextricable random bit of wackiness, Dick decides to stab the box with the sword, becomes omnipotent, and make everything better." Goodkind... please!

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11-01-2010, 04:59 PM	#17
lunixer Addict Posts: 231 Karma: 928 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kindle 3	All right, I guess you've convinced me. I'll at least try the other trilogies. Should I read Tawny Man or Liveship Traders first?

11-01-2010, 05:05 PM	#19
Iridal Mysteriarch Posts: 1,422 Karma: 26606984 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The land of impossible deadlines Device: iPhone 4, Kindle 3	I would recommend you read the Liveship Traders first. That's the way Robin Hobb wrote them: Assassins - Liveship traders - Tawny Man. The Liveship trader trilogy isn't about Fitz so you might like them better Also, reading the liveships first will help you understand a lot of the things that will pop up in the Tawny Man trilogy.

11-01-2010, 07:44 PM	#21
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I've only read the first Farseer book but my own impression disagrees greatly with the OP's. I enjoyed it and plan to continue the series. The pacing is VERY slow but I was immersed in the world she weaves. Fitz is an awkward semi-failure on many fronts. That makes him human and charming, at least to me. His lack of emotions, or really good control of displaying them, bothers me but he's not uber-man even then (he got obviously depressed at one point). He has an uneducated drive to do the right thing, if he only knew what it was, and at least in the first book his loyalty is unwaivering. I do notice this series singled out for hate by enough people that you're not weird or anything, lol. It surely does disagree with some. Kind of how I feel about The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (I want my many hours of reading them back!) yet there are folks who love that series too.

11-05-2010, 02:36 AM	#24
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	The Widowmaker series by Mike Resnick is a pretty good SF about assassins. Also pretty interesting take on cloning.

11-05-2010, 05:17 AM	#25
Thjan book addict Posts: 24 Karma: 36 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Omega - Afterlife Device: Kindle 3, Sony PRS-650	I was also dissapointed with the Farseer trilogy. Especially the black and white character drawing was very boring. All the characters felt dull. I have to admit that I skipped most of the third book because of that. Now I will give Brent Weeks' "Night Angel" trilogy a try when I am done with the SF book I am currently reading. Or maybe I try Joe Abercrombie first.

11-07-2010, 05:34 PM	#28
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	Never read the series. The covers feature animals and that Kiss of Death for me - a dragon. I've got nothing against animals, as long as they are in their place - tied up in the backyard. I am soooo not into the whole dragon genre at all.

12-12-2011, 04:42 PM	#30
aristotle9 Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: none	Sorry, one last point. Propehcy was NOT the reason Fitz went on his quest. I too am tired of that plot schema, but it does not apply here. Prophecy drove The Fool, but not Fitz. Fitz, Verity, Regal, the Red Ships, nor anyone other than The Fool (and minor character Kettle) make any decisions with any prophecy in mind. Fitz starts the quest in the last book to kill Regal (no prophecy there) and finishes the quest because Verity called for him and duty drives him. How can you highlight the inclusion of prophecy as a flaw in a story by first calling out WOT and SOT as series you like? These are some of the most prophecy driven books ever written. Its like saying that your favorite book is the Bible but then go on to say that you are sick of relgious texts.

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