Give Harlan Ellison a thought this weekend

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Reading to this point in this thread constitutes all the thought I plan to expend on Ellison.

[ChaoZ]

What a coincidence, I watched the Harlan Ellison documentary on Netflix just last week. He's quite the character, ferocious in defending his properties and beliefs, abrasive to his fandom, but I think I would still name him as one of the greats of SF.

I have to read more of his stuff.

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

What a coincidence, I watched the Harlan Ellison documentary on Netflix just last week. He's quite the character, ferocious in defending his properties and beliefs, abrasive to his fandom, but I think I would still name him as one of the greats of SF.

I have to read more of his stuff.

I think I would rank him as one of the better short story writers in SF. On the flip side though, I think he goes out of his way to be do and say outrageous things to get attention. I certainly think he is too much of a prima donna to have ever been a screen writer.

I also can't help but wonder if all of this boils down to him crying for attention...

--
Bill

[crich70]

Yep I still remember Peggy Lee vs. Disney when I was a kid. She was paid to do the voice of one of the female dogs in "Lady and the Tramp" but there was no such thing as VHS much less DVD media back then. Of course when Disney brought "Lady and the Tramp" out on VHS but didn't give a share of the profits to Peggy Lee as one of the voice actors she took them to court. I think the court found in her favor too.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

It depends upon the job that you're doing, and what payment has normally been.

In broadcast TV, a show will almost certainly be shown more than once, and will generate revenue in the form of advertising from each showing. Subsequent showings and the revenue thus generated are called residuals. The actors appearing in the show expect to get additional revenue beyond the original salary for appearing, and writers who wrote the show expect likewise.

You can argue that they should not get additional payments, but historically, they have, and the content producers have been trying to reduce or eliminate them, to reduce costs and add to their bottom line. Needless to say, the affected groups are fighting back hard to prevent this, as it's an attempt to take away something they had previously gotten. (And acting and script writing are not secure sources of income. For many folks in the trade, residuals are an important component of their income. Take away residuals, and they drop from "middle class" to "poverty stricken".)

Thinks about when you were still an active cabinet maker. How would you have felt about attempts to reduce what you got paid for doing a particular job you had done before for a higher rate?
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

I think I would rank him as one of the better short story writers in SF. On the flip side though, I think he goes out of his way to be do and say outrageous things to get attention.

Harlan started in SF as a fan, and was part of the group that called itself "Seventh Fandom" in the early 1960s. Fandom was a comforting place for a short skinny Jewish kid from the Midwest, growing up in a time and place where anti-Semitism was far more virulent than it is today, and being a Jew was not a safe thing. In fandom, he was accepted, and his writing skills valued.

I certainly think he is too much of a prima donna to have ever been a screen writer.

He was a screen writer, coming to attention with produced scripts for the original Star Trek series. Being a prima donna is hardly out of character in film or TV.

That came later. Aside from the SF short stories that made his reputation, there was some mainstream work such as _The Juvies_, a fictional portrait of a teenage street gang in Brooklyn, which got praise from Dorothy Parker in the New Yorker. Harlan claimed to have run with a gang to do research for the book. (I have it. Good stuff.)

There have also been a couple of collections of TV reviews he did for the old "underground" paper, Los Angeles Free Press, back in the late 60's/early 70's.

I also can't help but wonder if all of this boils down to him crying for attention...

It would not be out of character.
______
Dennis

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

.


He was a screen writer, coming to attention with produced scripts for the original Star Trek series. Being a prima donna is hardly out of character in film or TV.

I think being a prima donna works better if you are the star or the director. I know of very few scripts that get produced as written by the original screen writer. I have always felt he was in the wrong over his long running feud with Roddenbery over City on the Edge of Forever. The Universe and the show were Roddenbery's.

--
Bill

[J. Strnad]

It's the writer's status as a second class citizen that Harlan rails against. The writer should not be treated as less than the director, the acting talent, or any other creative person involved in filmmaking. It is, after all, the writer who starts with the blank page; everything that happens from that point on is some manner of interpretation. Yet, it is the writer who gets the least respect. Anyone who has worked in Hollywood as a writer knows this in their bones, and most accept that second-class standing. Not Harlan. And he is vociferous in urging his fellow writers to reject that status as well.

He is far kinder, more courteous and funnier than you'll ever see in a public appearance or portrayed on the media. The obnoxious, loud-mouthed Harlan Ellison is real, no doubt, but so is the "softer" Ellison that helps, encourages and entertains.

BTW, the Terminator business: Harlan wrote a story called "Soldier" for The Outer Limits, about a single-minded soldier in the future, bred as a killing machine, who is transported to the past to battle his future-enemy who has also been transported. James Cameron stated in print that Harlan's story was the inspiration for The Terminator. Hence, the lawsuit, and the payment of $250,000 to Harlan and the very closing end credit "Acknowledgment to the works of Harlan Ellison."

[Fat Abe]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

BTW, the Terminator business: Harlan wrote a story called "Soldier" for The Outer Limits, about a single-minded soldier in the future, bred as a killing machine, who is transported to the past to battle his future-enemy who has also been transported."

The lawsuit must have been pretty far-reaching. On IMDB, the writing credits for the movie Terminator also include a reference to Demon With a Glass Hand:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088247/fullcredits

More trivia can be found on the same site:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0255196/bio

Harlan may be an obnoxious guy to some, but he's right on the money with this quote:

"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen...and stupidity."

I live in a state where stupidity exceeds all the water in all the oceans.

Let's give the man his due. He wrote some great and memorable works.

[Donnageddon]

I am a great appreciator of Elliison's work; as a fiction writer, anthologist, and essayist. His writing style to me, is akin to Vonnegut's. Not that they are similar, but that they are distinctively Theirs. You do not read Ellison or Vonnegut and mistake who you are reading.

I pay respect to him each time I purchase and enjoy his work.

But I am not going to get all gushy until he is dead. I do not think he would really respect the gushiness. And I do not want to get sued.

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

It's the writer's status as a second class citizen that Harlan rails against. The writer should not be treated as less than the director, the acting talent, or any other creative person involved in filmmaking. It is, after all, the writer who starts with the blank page; everything that happens from that point on is some manner of interpretation. Yet, it is the writer who gets the least respect. Anyone who has worked in Hollywood as a writer knows this in their bones, and most accept that second-class standing. Not Harlan. And he is vociferous in urging his fellow writers to reject that status as well.

Umm... ever try to get anything done by committee? Ultimately every creative enterprise needs a guiding force behind it. Whether it is the producer, show runner, director, etc. Everyone else takes second fiddle for the simple reason that they must if you hope to ever get something made, certainly anything worth making.

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Bill

[NormHart]

E-Reads via Baen Books is offering all their Harlan Ellision ebooks for $6.00 ea

http://www.webscription.net/m-7-e-reads.aspx?pagenum=1

(set author select to HE)

[BenG]

Also check out his collection of suspense and crime stories, No Doors, No Windows. which includes his Edgar Award winning story, The Whimper of Whipped Dogs. and Tired Old Man which was a tribute to Cornell Woolrich. It's available at Baen.