HP Nightmare

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

I had this HP wide format printer that was in perfect shape . When XP came along, the driver that was ported for it lost 60% of its functions, things that I really needed to operate the darn thing. The W98 version could be reinstalled but not without pain, and caused unstability on the PC. After a while I gave up and stored it on the pile of old pcs, Macs, and outdated stuff , with the stock of expensive ink cartriges I had bought ahead of time.

My colleague bought a HP printer a few months ago only to discover that it's not working under Windows Vista. Lesson: if you have to buy your next HP printer, make sure it's using PCL language and not Windows' GDI feature, which is no longer supported by Vista. Usually low-end printers still use GDI (meaning your computer does all the processing work rather than the printer).

[nekokami]

Whoa. Vista doesn't support GDL???

Heck, you really might as well go with Linux and CUPS at that point.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Whoa. Vista doesn't support GDL???

Heck, you really might as well go with Linux and CUPS at that point.

Hmm, I double-checked with Google and it appears I am wrong, and that there is still a compatibility layer for GDI, but without any gimmicks (apparently not enough to make HP GDI printers work properly). Vista's new printing protocol is called "Printing Path XPS", which isn't much supported by printers yet.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

which isn't much supported by printers yet.

Typical.

I think I'm forming the opinion that it's a bad idea to adopt a new version of Windows before they start working on its replacement.

[UncleDuke]

give it a decade or two to shake out

[NatCh]

Yes, exactly.

[sea2stars]

Heh. Yeah.. how long until XP was actually useful? Service pack 2?

When I first bought my HP laptop 3 years ago there was a huge problem with many of the motherboards which could be demonstrated time and time again; if the system requested enough RAM at one time the system would die. HP argued that it was a software problem... anyways it took months of arguing to get them to replace the motherboard. What angered me more, is that a friend bough a future model and encountered the same problem. Way to go HP.

Nod. Except for laptops, I've been building my own systems. Anything from a $200 web browser to a $1600 media server/render node.

The basic rules that I use for systems for other people are:

1) if you are just looking for a basic net/typewriter/general use machine, pick up a cheap prebuilt. At that level they all are pretty much the same and will serve your purpose as well as a more expensive machine and at a better cost. (-$500 and under)

2) if you are needing something more robust or specialized then still feel free to look at prebuilts but research what they come with, what can be added in and what the insides look like. If they won't open the case in the store, go somewhere else or order from one of the online builders (Dell, etc.) ($500-800)

3) if you start looking at systems at the $1000 and up range, ask around and see if anyone knows someone who builds systems instead of buying a prebuilt. Yes, systems are generally easy to build but not everyone has the time or (unbelievable as it seems) the mental fortitude to find everything needed to make a good, stable system. In these times there is a high chance that there is someone around you who can build for a small charge. The cost (parts + labor) should be the same as a prebuilt and since most builders are a bit retentive anyway it will be a nicer system (with a margin of over-building likely but that's a good thing). If the cost the geeker quotes is to much higher than what you saw in the store, get another opinion (your first geek may be to much of an enthusiast for your needs).

And for heavens sake, if you don't have the ability to build a system yourself do NOT let the local geeker talk you into saving money and going to Linux! I've had to fix systems like this before. (Nothing against Linux. I use it a lot and love it. But let's be honest about the "ease of use" myth. If you can't put together a computer, you SURE can't manage a operating system that still often needs tinkering "under the hood" to get it running. Stick with Windows. One of it's strong points is the general stability and lack of customizing available to the average user.)


So far this year I've built 7 systems for people who either had no aptitude but did have an experience like yours (and so were NOT going to buy another prebuilt) or had the aptitude but no time. Oddly enough the majority have been media centers/graphic stations. Lots of people are starting to see the advantage of digitizing photos, movies and documents. Which means they are also starting to see the limits of things they are using (DRM and format shifting).

[Azayzel]

I totally agree with what Stxopher recommends, those are some very good guidelines to follow and while I never summed them up as you have, I'm sure I'd arrive at the same conclusion. Sometimes, and for the average user, it's best to simply buy the all-in-one package you can pick up from the local Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, et al, that way it can a) be returned easy or b) purchased cheaper than you can put one together.

I've always built my own desktop PC's and was looking to build my latest as a home theater PC, HTPC, but it was tough to find the *best* case for what I wanted. Inevitably, I found a consumer-grade system from Sony that I couldn't have pieced together for the price even if I had wholesale pricing available, so I picked it up. While I wish the upgrade path was a bit easier, such as with hardware (video card), some things I had to put on a back burner for what I wanted right now.

To beat Compaq/HP's horse to death a bit more... what's up with the guys still throwing in riser-cards contraptions? Also, many are using half-height cards which are fairly tough to come by, especially if you're looking for a "power upgrade."

Back to the other guys... I friend of mine just purchased a Dell desktop that really impressed me. It had a smokin nice case, smaller than huge tower formfactor, and was pretty quick to boot! They did spend somewhere in the line of $2,000 for it, but you get what you pay for. I'm about to change my opinion of Dell if this keeps up.

In case you're wondering the specs on the system I picked up; i.e., the HTPC, it's a Pentium-D 2.80GHz, with 2GB RAM, 2 x 150GB HDD in RAID0, Windows XP MCE (I'm staying far away from Vista, for now), NVidia GeForce 6600 128MB (not too good, but reasonable), and the systems configured for HDMI-out or component-out and a full 5.1 breakout setup to pre-amp (though I prefer optical out for audio), and to top all this off, it has a bluetooth keyboard, 200 DVD changer (yep, you read it right... 200!), and blends into my TV stand with the rest of the components. All of this I picked up to $750 just before Christmas, what a phenominal gift for myself this year! Sometimes you find a great deal, I was just lucky.

[Bob Russell]

Originally Posted by Azayzel

Sometimes, and for the average user, it's best to simply buy the all-in-one package you can pick up from the local Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, et al, that way it can a) be returned easy or b) purchased cheaper than you can put one together.

Well, that's the next sad part of the story. In the US, at least, Circuit City charges a 15% restocking fee for returned computers, and it doesn't matter what the reason for the return is! They claim that the manufacturer won't take returns for any reason (just exchanges, I suppose, and even then it's probably only for refurbished ones), so the store has to sell the fixed one as open box or refurbished stock. After being a bit tough on the store manager, I got that restock cut in half, but it was still painful, especially when I tried so hard to make it work and it didn't seem like it was my fault that they designed it so badly. So I don't plan to buy any computers from retail at stores with restock fees again, unless there's a darn good reason.

My Dell has been great, so I suppose I should stick with what works. I'll have to check, but I think shipping charges are the only problem if you have to return to them. Plus, I can get whatever I want already added to it. That may be my best answer (as my top criteria at the moment is that I don't have to spend time on it).

[astra]

I thought it is a universal law (well at least in Western Europe and the USA). If you buy an item over the Internet (without actually seeing it) you have 7 days to return the item without any reason whatsoever.

[nekokami]

That restocking fee is a nasty loophole. I appreciate that the retailer doesn't want to get stuck with the loss, but the manufacturer should take the units back if they are returned to the store. I'll have to remember to check for restocking fees on any big-ticket items.

I bought a laptop at CompUSA a couple of months ago and then realized (before I'd even opened the box) that the video card wouldn't work for the intended purpose. They took it back with no problem.

[RWood]

I've never paid a restocking fee at either Best Buy or Micro Center. (All the CompUSA stores around here are gone.) Considering their stated margins, it would seem that these stores make more on the restocking fee than they do on a normal sale.