Declaration of Independence

[HansTWN]

In the case of Sony it is Sony in Japan who decides that non-Americans cannot e-book readers buy from Sony US -- how is that "Americo-centrism"???

[HarryT]

Geographical restrictions on eBook selling did not arise with US companies, but in the UK. A British publisher threatened legal action against US eBook stores because they permitted people in the UK to buy US editions of books for which the UK publisher had the exlusive UK distribution rights. You can't blame the US for that one .

[Fanas]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Geographical restrictions on eBook selling did not arise with US companies, but in the UK. A British publisher threatened legal action against US eBook stores because they permitted people in the UK to buy US editions of books for which the UK publisher had the exlusive UK distribution rights. You can't blame the US for that one .

Yeah right.
I wanted Iphone, it took ages to be released and when they did release it, it was tied to a cellular network costing ridiculous monthly fees. I can buy it now, but screw me if I ever support apple.
I wanted kindle, but it's already third version in USA, but no other country in the universe can get even the first kindle.
Also amazon won't ship half the stuff they sell to my address. Probably only thing I can buy there are paper books.
I don't know if itunes is selling music for my country now, but the last time I checked it didn't. It almost seems like they want me to steal it.

[doreenjoy]

I don't think I agree with any of these points.

8. Free distribution of any book which is electronic format. --
WTH?

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by bill the smith

Declaration of Independence

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that books are knowledge and that knowledge is forever free".

I am totally opposed to:
1. DMR on books.
2. Geographic limits on sales of ereaders.
3. Geographic limits on purchase of ebooks.
4. Americo-centrism as the defining basis of the availability of literature.
5. Making criminals of those who download/possess/read ebooks which are not in the Public Domain.
6. Unreal copyright laws.

This means that I support:
7. Software that cracks/strips DRM.
8. Free distribution of any book which is electronic format.
9. Access for all ereaders and ebooks without geographical limitation.
10. "Warez" or "pirate sites” that make ebooks available to all – books for every person in every country for free.

Is anyone else on board?

1: I oppose any DRM scheme that inhibits fair use but not DRM in and of itself.
2 & 3: The producers choice and frankly Icouldn't care one way or the other. If the company doesn't want to sell to me I will go buy another ereader. I'm not going to get hot and bothered by such a trivial thing.
4: This is simply "USA bashing".
5: The way it is worded instantly struck me as needlessly over the top and hyperbolic. Upon clarification that it is about unpaid for copies of copyrighted work as opposed to all downloaded works then I would have to disagree.
6: I agree copyright laws as they currently stand are weighted too far in favour of the creator if that is what you mean.
7: I agree.
8: Totally disagree.
9: Couldn't care one way or the other. Again, if a company doesn't want to sell to me I will purchase a competitors product. There are plenty of products that are only available in some countries and not others, always have been and always will be. I'm not a fan of the Kindle anyway and really don't understand why everyone whinges so often about it only being available in the USA.
10: Totally disagree.

As for all this talk about third world countries should get it for free, Australia isn't a third world country even if our transport system sometimes makes me think it is! Sounds more like a rationalisation for the fact you want your books for free rather than paying for them.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[EowynCarter]

I am totally opposed to:
1. DMR on books.
- Yes ! We're customers, not thefts !

2. Geographic limits on sales of ereaders.
- Yes again !

3. Geographic limits on purchase of ebooks.
- Yes again !

4. Americo-centrism as the defining basis of the availability of literature.
- Ah the kindle kindle kindle, not it's not availible in most of the world

5. Making criminals of those who download/possess/read ebooks which are not in the Public Domain.
yeah

6. Unreal copyright laws.
yeah too.

This means that I support:
7. Software that cracks/strips DRM.
Sure do. Life savior.

8. Free distribution of any book which is electronic format.
Depend of the meaning of the term free there.

9. Access for all ereaders and ebooks without geographical limitation.
Yes !

10. "Warez" or "pirate sites” that make ebooks available to all – books for every person in every country for free.
Only for books that are not legally available. (Harry Potter anyone ?)

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Absolutely right. It's like companies who illegally produce unlicenced versions of drugs. A drug might only cost pennies to manufacture, but it can cost hundreds of millions of $ to come up with in the first place. Unless the legal framework allows that money to be recouped, the result will inevitably be "no more new drugs". That is patent law, not copyright, but the principle is the same.

But in other threads you've supported the NHS aspiration of 'free at the point of use'.
If 'the principle is the same', shouldn't readers have free access to books regardless of their ability to pay?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

But in other threads you've supported the NHS principle of 'free at the point of use'.
If 'the principle is the same', shouldn't readers have free access to books regardless of their ability to pay?

Readers do have free access to books, regardless of their ability to pay - it's called a "library". However, if you want your own personal book of a book, rather than borrowing one from the library, you have to buy it.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Readers do have free access to books, regardless of their ability to pay - it's called a "library". However, if you want your own personal book of a book, rather than borrowing one from the library, you have to buy it.

You can only get a limited range of books at a library.

[HarryT]

Pretty much any library will allow you to order any book you want.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Pretty much any library will allow you to order any book you want.

At a cost.

Also, we shouldn't forget, not everyone does have access to a library.

[HarryT]

Really? I thought it was free. It's a while since I've done it.

Anyway, your point is not very valid, to my mind, I'm afraid. Any bookstore has a "limited range" of books. A large city library will have a much better range of books than a small village library does. That's life.

What is it that you are suggesting? That the taxpayer pays for everyone to have free access to all the eBooks in the world, free of charge?

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Really? I thought it was free. It's a while since I've done it.

Depends on the library.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What is it that you are suggesting? That the taxpayer pays for everyone to have free access to all the eBooks in the world, free of charge?

That seemed to be the implication of your suggestion that it was the 'same' principle as reimbursing drug companies.
You've previously argued in support of the idea - that end users shouldn't pay (with regard to the NHS).
Are you now saying the drug company comparison is not applicable to the debate about books?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

That seemed to be the implication of your suggestion that it was the 'same' principle as reimbursing drug companies.

I think you have have misunderstood me. I said that unless there was a legal system in place to allow drug companies to be reimbursed for their costs, no company would be willing to spend the huge amount of money it takes to create a new drug, and that to manufacture a drug illegally is therefore both morally and legally "wrong".

You've previously argued in support of the idea - that end users shouldn't pay (with regard to the NHS).

Yes, I do indeed believe that the healthcare system should be funded by the state, just as I'm strongly in favour of a state-funded library system. However, a library system is very different to giving everyone unlimited "personal" copies of eBooks.