Amazon and DRM changes

[lkmiller]

@jhowell

BookFab uses a clever hack to avoid the need to crack the latest KFX DRM. It obtains the customer's credentials and Kindle for PC registration info and then communicates with Amazon's servers pretending to be the latest version of Kindle for PC. However unlike the real app, when it requests a book for download it indicates that it only supports older KFX DRM that has been cracked since 2021. Surprisingly that actually works. Amazon supplies the files that make up the book and then BookFab uses included code from DeDRM and my KFX Input plugin to do the rest of the work.

This is what I suspected. Thank you for the investigating and the warning. Although I would stop buying from Amazon rather than paying for DRM removal.

[Fabien C]

I asked the DVDFab sales department the following question: “If I use BookFab Kindle Converter, is there any way for Amazon to find out?”

Here's their answer: "When using BookFab Kindle Converter with the decryption mode for locally downloaded books, you directly select the encrypted books downloaded to your computer via the converter's interface. Once selected, you import them into the download list for decryption. This method improves the security of your account by reducing the risk of being detected by Amazon, thus considerably reducing the chances of your account being blocked. You can therefore use this mode with greater peace of mind."

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Fabien C

I asked the DVDFab sales department the following question: “If I use BookFab Kindle Converter, is there any way for Amazon to find out?”

Here's their answer: "When using BookFab Kindle Converter with the decryption mode for locally downloaded books, you directly select the encrypted books downloaded to your computer via the converter's interface. Once selected, you import them into the download list for decryption. This method improves the security of your account by reducing the risk of being detected by Amazon, thus considerably reducing the chances of your account being blocked. You can therefore use this mode with greater peace of mind."

Note they didn't say Amazon cannot detect it.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Fabien C

I asked the DVDFab sales department the following question: “If I use BookFab Kindle Converter, is there any way for Amazon to find out?”

Here's their answer: "When using BookFab Kindle Converter with the decryption mode for locally downloaded books, you directly select the encrypted books downloaded to your computer via the converter's interface. Once selected, you import them into the download list for decryption. This method improves the security of your account by reducing the risk of being detected by Amazon, thus considerably reducing the chances of your account being blocked. You can therefore use this mode with greater peace of mind."

What a lot of words to not even answer the question.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

What a lot of words to not even answer the question.

This is what I use...when appropriate.

YMMV

[Fabien C]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

What a lot of words to not even answer the question.

Yes, the answer is clear: the risk is low but not zero.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Fabien C

Yes, the answer is clear: the risk is low but not zero.

For some value of low that might actually be high.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Fabien C

Yes, the answer is clear: the risk is low but not zero.

For me, the answer given seems to say that if I have the already downloaded books and use their tool to locally decrypt them, the risk is minimal. This seems to assume that I managed to download the books either using K4PC or from an Kindle eInk device. The risk there is low unless Amazon has the ability to track my computer activities.

It does not come close to answering the question of Amazon being able to detect the use of their tool to download the books from Amazon. Given that it is sending Amazon the information that your install of K4PC is unable to handle the newer KFX encryption, it would not be all that hard to detect. I suspect for this method, the risk will be high.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Currently we have a bet whether his K4A or BookFab install will stop working first.

I believe that BookFab will outlast older K4A. In the past Amazon has responded quickly by switching to new KFX DRM within days of older DRM being broken. That was only possible because they had kept extra DRM schemes in reserve for that purpose. In cases like this where server changes would need to be implemented, tested, and deployed to lock out BookFab it could take weeks.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Note they didn't say Amazon cannot detect it.

And they do say that their program is downloading the eBooks.

IMHO, the risk is not worth it.

[MegDreamsofBooks]

Originally Posted by DNSB

For me, the answer given seems to say that if I have the already downloaded books and use their tool to locally decrypt them, the risk is minimal. This seems to assume that I managed to download the books either using K4PC or from an Kindle eInk device. The risk there is low unless Amazon has the ability to track my computer activities.

It does not come close to answering the question of Amazon being able to detect the use of their tool to download the books from Amazon. Given that it is sending Amazon the information that your install of K4PC is unable to handle the newer KFX encryption, it would not be all that hard to detect. I suspect for this method, the risk will be high.

There's a serious lack of product documentation so I could be missing it, but there doesn't seem to be an option to separately download books in Kindle for PC then add them to Bookfab. It ONLY works by using the Bookfab interface to connect to the Amazon portal, and download the book from Amazon using the Bookfab app.

As others have said, this creates a serious risk of getting your account flagged and deleted by Amazon for violation of Terms of Service, which would then remove access to all previously purchased digital content (ebooks, music, videos, games, etc.)

Definitely not something I'll be hooking up to my main Amazon account, I may decide to make a separate Amazon account just for the new release books which can only be purchased at Amazon if the e-ink Kindle download method ever stops working with Calibre.

[FayWallet]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I don't know if Amazon will or not. I just wanted to raise the issue that they have all of the information they need to target those using this method to bypass DRM if they decide to do so.

Thank you for the warning.
I am a new BookFab Kindle user and saw this warning. So, I reached out to their support team about it, and they assured me that they will add the function of importing Kindle PC books to complete the process, so that there will be no account risk problems (which should make things safer). Gonna take them at their word for now - fingers crossed!

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by FayWallet

Thank you for the warning.
I am a new BookFab Kindle user and saw this warning. So, I reached out to their support team about it, and they assured me that they will add the function of importing Kindle PC books to complete the process, so that there will be no account risk problems (which should make things safer). Gonna take them at their word for now - fingers crossed!

Their whole method depends on interacting with Amazon servers. There's no way they can do it without any risk to your account.

[lkmiller]

Originally Posted by FayWallet

Thank you for the warning.
I am a new BookFab Kindle user and saw this warning. So, I reached out to their support team about it, and they assured me that they will add the function of importing Kindle PC books to complete the process, so that there will be no account risk problems (which should make things safer). Gonna take them at their word for now - fingers crossed!

Don't see that happening for anything that can't just be decrypted with DeDRM. Anything published after Apr 22 would need to be downloaded via BookFab to get older KFX DRM.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by FayWallet

Thank you for the warning.
I am a new BookFab Kindle user and saw this warning. So, I reached out to their support team about it, and they assured me that they will add the function of importing Kindle PC books to complete the process, so that there will be no account risk problems (which should make things safer). Gonna take them at their word for now - fingers crossed!

I wouldn't. I can't see it. I spent years doing programming & IT security. Perhaps they are being optimistic and think they or someone else will crack the later/newer KFX versions. But if that happens there will be free solutions too.

They can't remove DRM on newer titles without running their program using your credentials to Amazon server and claiming in protocol that newer KFX isn't supported.
One: That is going to be blocked.
Two: Amazon may decide to see what accounts have this "loop hole" strange behaviour and ban the accounts. However they may not care.

The current mechanism is going to fail (get blocked) sooner than later. Currently a K3 to PW1 might be better, but of course Amazon might stop re-registering those, and/or even cut them off (blocking or making re-registering hard is more likely).