The Vent and Rant Thread

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Hey, let's tell you something. I'm in the Netherlands, quite close to the border.

So close in fact that if I step out of my front door and stumble, I could actually end up in Germany before hitting the ground. Cool, huh?

Feel invited methinks we could have some geek time over here.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Hitch

LOL. I recall when my mother and some other family members came out to see me, in AZ.

She came from the TriState area (in the USA, NY, NJ, Connecticut), and that's her primary frame of reference. That and Europe, for her college work. In the US, you can pretty much drive from NJ to Washington, DC, in about 3 hrs, 45 minutes, if you take the I-95S. Natch, she assumed that driving times--or, I guess, the expectation of how far one would go--were similar, here.

I went to the World Science Fiction Convention in San Jose, CA one year. I had an exchange in email with one of the convention organizers, and it was quite clear that folks on the Left Coast have a different notion of "close by" than folks from the Northeast. I live in NYC, and for me, "close by" is a few blocks walk. Out there, "close by" is a couple of hours drive.

So, she and the other harridans (aka inside the fam as the Geriatric Buccanneers) took their rental car, drove from my home to Sedona, and were all proud of themselves. (About...1.5-2 hours). After that daytrip, they decided that they were going to DRIVE to the Grand Canyon, and that's when I interceded, saying "nope, not gonna happen." Suffice to say, Mother was pissed about being thwarted.

Anyway...I ended up getting a plane, and flying them from Scottsdale to the Canyon, and over it. I forget the flight time, but when we were substantially away from the Metro area, I pointed her view out the windscreens/windows and said "see that? That vast nothing? THAT is what I didn't want you three driving through." Once she saw that literally, you could see NO sign of civilization as far as the eye could see, in a bloody airplane, mind you, she decided that perhaps, I'd been right about it. (Not to mention--there is no such thing as actually appreciating the Canyon, from the ground. You have to see it from the air to really grasp its size.)

She couldn't believe that you could drive 3.5-5 hours, and STILL not leave the state. (n.b. of course, most people forget how large NY state really is, but that's for another day.) :-)

I had a discussion with a friend about that, who sometimes goes to the Catskills. A friend of my SO and I owns property upstate, and takes us along for company and moral support when she has property issues to deal with. I talked about getting there by taking I-87 west and then north to route 11. The alternative was north and then west. There is no straight-forward diagonal route. There's this thing called the Adirondack Park Preserve in the way...

A co-worker decades ago had been stationed in the Army at a base in Texas. He and a couple of his squad mates drew three day pass, signed out a jeep, and were going to a local town to hit the bars and get plastered.

They managed to make an epic wrong turn somewhere. They did eventually reach a town with the name of the one they were looking for, but this one was in Kansas, not Texas. They had an interesting time explaining to their company First Sergeant just why they were several days late getting back from their pass...

(It was during the Vietnam War era. I suspect some primo Vietnamese weed might have had something to do with how they managed to get to right town/wrong state.)
______
Dennis

[Blossom]

I need to vent.

Maisy has been sick for over a week. It's her time, I know it, she knows it, the vet knows it but my husband refuses to let go.

He's never lost a pet before. He's never lost a love one. He just doesn't know how to deal. He's being stupidly stubborn. I have lost both. I am trying to reason with him but he is just so darn stubborn.

I hate seeing her so sick. It's not diabetes, it her stomach. They think cancer but without paying big bucks which even the vet advises not to they can't say for sure.

It's going to come down to me defying him and god I don't know how he'll recover. I can't let this continue. I can't let her suffer. All he sees is vomit and her going outside the litter box. He doesn't see what I see. What I feel coming from her. She refuses to take any pills. She'll pretend to take them and then spit them out later. She doesn't want this prolonged. She wants peace and so do I.



Sent from my XT1528

[Katsunami]

That seems a hard situation. It's hard to understand how someone can't have lost a pet or a loved one at an age above 20 or so. My niece is 5 years old now, and in that time she's lost two dogs (that were 14 and 15 at the point of their passing; the 14 year old just died during the night, the 15 year old was put to sleep), and a great-grandfather.

Can't you go to the vet together, ask him what can and should be done, and have him state that it would be the best to put the cat to sleep because otherwise she will suffer without any chance of getting better? Maybe he'll accept it from the vet, even if he doesn't from you.

Good luck with that.

[CRussel]

Blossom, I feel for you, and for him, and for Maisy. It's hard. It's always hard to know when to let go, and when to hang on, and clearly your husband is having difficulty recognizing it. In many ways, it's harder with pets -- we can't directly ask them, though they do tell us. We just had to say good by to Wally (Sir William Wallace of Ellersley), our beloved Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. He'd been slowing down all winter, but then the day came when he wasn't interested in his food, didn't want a bone or a greenie, and I knew. I gave it another day, but then we had to do it. This was hardly the first, but definitely one of the hardest. My DW would probably have moved earlier, but he wasn't yet in pain, and he still enjoyed his belly rubs and curling under my desk to help me work, so we waited. But then he told us it was time.

My thoughts are with you in this very difficult time.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Blossom

I need to vent.

Maisy has been sick for over a week. It's her time, I know it, she knows it, the vet knows it but my husband refuses to let go.
<SNIP>
It's going to come down to me defying him and god I don't know how he'll recover. I can't let this continue. I can't let her suffer. All he sees is vomit and her going outside the litter box. He doesn't see what I see. What I feel coming from her. She refuses to take any pills. She'll pretend to take them and then spit them out later. She doesn't want this prolonged. She wants peace and so do I.

Blossom:

I've always had to be the one who does the necessary, as the Brits say. My husband can't. He just can't.

My last thing--not to make you feel worse, on a Sunday, but stomach cancer is one of the most painful ways to die. When my Ragdoll--a cat I'd had 17 years, and loved indescribably, came down with cancer, it wasn't in her tum, and I did take her through chemo (she lived another 1.5 years, the chemo was successful, but she was in GREAT shape when we found it.) BUT, when my first Maine Coon came down with stomach cancer, even though we found it early--I had him put down that day. He was obviously in discomfort and didn't want to eat. No point in prolonging his suffering.

(My grandmother had stomach cancer, and was in HORRIBLE pain. My vet says that there's no reason to think that it's any different for cats. The vet I'm citing is a specialist in feline cancer.)

Just tell your husband the truth--putting a pet down is the most brutal thing. You can't ask them how they feel, you can't have discussions about it, long before something happens, etc. It's your duty and responsibility to make those choices for them. As hard as it is, it's selfish--this is what you have to say to him--to make them suffer just so you don't have to grieve. Those of us who love our pets like children--we all know how you feel. How he feels. But...this is part of the responsibility of being adults, and pet owners. If he can't agree--then you have to do the hard thing.

One of the lines from the mysterious (ha) author Trevanian, that has always stuck with me, is from Shibumi, IIRC, and it went something like ...

"Who does the hard thing? He who can."

My sincere sympathies to you and your husband, and Maisie.

Hitch

[Cinisajoy]

My thoughts are with you, Blossom.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Just tell your husband the truth--putting a pet down is the most brutal thing. You can't ask them how they feel, you can't have discussions about it, long before something happens, etc. It's your duty and responsibility to make those choices for them. As hard as it is, it's selfish--this is what you have to say to him--to make them suffer just so you don't have to grieve. Those of us who love our pets like children--we all know how you feel. How he feels. But...this is part of the responsibility of being adults, and pet owners. If he can't agree--then you have to do the hard thing.

We've done it twice.

Years ago, my late cat Dizzy suffered kidney failure. He was about seven years old. The vet said the problem with kidney failure in cats was that by the time they displayed visible symptoms, it was too late. I could treat aggressively, forcing fluids into him to help flush his system of toxins his kidneys could no longer remove, and perhaps prolong his life by about 6 months. Bit the vet thought that wasn't a good quality of life for the cat, or me, and recommended I euthanize him. He got a last cuddle and belly rub, and was gone. I still miss him.

More recently, it was Bugsy's turn. We think he was about fourteen, but he was "pre-owned", and originally belonged to another tenant in my building. He adopted us, and decided we were his people and where he wanted to stay. (Given his former owner, that was a rational decision.)

Bugsy was the floor cat for several floors in the building, making the rounds, accepting treats and attention, but he wasn't a mooch. It's an older building with mice, and he was determined to keep his turf rodent free. He would proudly bring us his catches and my SO would dispose of the corpses. Once in while, they would still be alive, and would get away from him. Those he would eat when he caught them again. He once left a corpse on my SO's pillow while we were away. She was not amused. Protests on my part of "But you're his person! He loves you! If he had two dead mice, he'd give you one! In fact, he did! left her unmoved.

He developed a tumor on his abdomen. The vet said that were he younger, he'd open him up to see what it was and possibly remove it, but at his age intrusive surgery had a good chance of killing him. He recommended lots of attention, his favorite treats, and bring him in for euthanasia when he declined too far. He did not "go gentle into this good night" - a week before he was euthanized he caught his last mouse.

We miss him too, but would do the same thing again in both cases. Better a quick painless death and no more suffering for the animal. It's going to go anyway, and keeping it around unhappy isn't good for you, either.
______
Dennis

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

We've done it twice.


We miss him too, but would do the same thing again in both cases. Better a quick painless death and no more suffering for the animal. It's going to go anyway, and keeping it around unhappy isn't good for you, either.
______
Dennis

Agreed.

One thing--most people don't know this, but for ages, what vets gave to animals, to put them down, was a paralytic, like succinylcholine. You DO NOT WANT THAT. That type of death looks peaceful--to the human. It's a HORRIBLE way to go for anyone, animal or person.

Insist that the vet anesthetize the cat first--knock her out--and then they can administer whatever they want to stop the heart. It's humane. They just really DO go to sleep--and never wake up. I'd wish that kind of death for myself.

I know that nothing will help how you and your spouse feel. But...you'll know that you did the RIGHT thing for her. What more can you ask, in such a difficult situation? That's the only thing I can say. And yes, it is gruesomely hard. My thoughts are with you, Blossom.

Hitch

[Blossom]

CRussel, Hitch, Dennis. Thank you for sharing your stories of lost. Thank you for your sympathies.

Hitch, you gave some really good advice. You are right some men just can't deal with it. Maisy took a bad turn last night. I'm fighting with my sister to give me a ride. She's on Hubby's side. Although hubby isn't fighting me anymore on it. He saw last night just how sick she is.

Sis isn't the brightest. She's gone off on me for giving Maisy Pepcid so she could eat and hold at least something down. Last night Maisy was running a fever and Sis told me to give her Motrin. I immediately told her that you don't give cats ibuprofen it's toxic but she wouldn't believe me. I even read from two reliable pet websites that confirm it was poison and she was still mad that I wouldn't give Maisy something that'd would harm her. This is what I have to deal with.

Pepcid is perfectly fine to give for nausea for cats. Vets say it's okay but my sister refuses to accept that. Anytime Maisy get sicks she has yelled at me that it's my fault for giving her Pepcid even though Maisy had these symptoms before we was told to give her Pepcid for tummy issues. When I can get Maisy to take Pepcid she's holds her food down better and seems happier but getting her to take it is near impossible now. She's learn how to hides it in her mouth or throat I can't tell which and pretends to swallow. I think this is her way of telling me to let go. The pill is so tiny. 1/4 of a tablet. Chasing it with water does not work. I've stopped trying due to how hysterical she becomes when I try to give it to her.

I've had very little sleep and now waiting for my sister to wake up which isn't till 10AM.
I'm fighting for Maisy's right for peace. I know I'm doing the right thing but convincing people around me has been more than I can deal with.

Dennis you are right. This hasn't been good for me. I've never been more stressed out and it's taken a toll on my health, mentally and physically. I'm tired of being made a villain due to uneducated people that my family is. Hubby I can understand where he is coming from but the others have no excuse. I've spent the last ten months dealing with her sick and it's been really bad the last four months to where I've had to hold constant vigils. I can't remember the last time I had more than four hours of uninterrupted sleep. It's been months. I pray today Maisy and I both find the peace we both need.



Sent from my XT1528

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

That seems a hard situation. It's hard to understand how someone can't have lost a pet or a loved one at an age above 20 or so. My niece is 5 years old now, and in that time she's lost two dogs (that were 14 and 15 at the point of their passing; the 14 year old just died during the night, the 15 year old was put to sleep), and a great-grandfather.

Can't you go to the vet together, ask him what can and should be done, and have him state that it would be the best to put the cat to sleep because otherwise she will suffer without any chance of getting better? Maybe he'll accept it from the vet, even if he doesn't from you.

Good luck with that.

Hubby is allergic to animal fur and feces. This is why he had never had to deal with a lose of a pet. I am also allergic to cat urine and feces. I was just too stubborn as young person to admit it. Now I'm older I realize the allergies have gotten to the point I'm constantly dealing with sinus issues.

What he did for love to please his young bride. Maisy used him as a pin cushion as she grew up. She was a big bully in her younger days. We joked it was a homeopathic approach and He did lose the ability to being allergic to her fur but still like me deals with the other side.

Sent from my XT1528

[Blossom]

Thank you everyone again for your comments. Maisy is no longer with us. I bawled my eyes out. I feel guilty but deep down know I did the right thing. Right now I'm giving Sweetpea lots of hugs and cuddles.

Sent from my XT1528

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I like it! Why not be a multinational "firm," if you can? :-)

(Two of my homes, over the years, through sheer coincidence, resided in two different counties. Not quite the same thing as two countries, but...)

I recall hearing about a place in Nevada that straddled counties.

Gambling and prostitution are both legal in NV, but it's one or the other - a county may have gambling or prostitution, but not both.

This place straddled the border between two counties, one with legal gambling, and the other with legal prostitution. So one side was a casino with gambling, and when a patron decided he'd prefer a different pleasure to relieve him of his money, he went out the front door and strolled around to the rear. (IIRC, there was no direct connection inside the building - that would have been pushing it. )

You also have places like Kansas City, which exists as Kansas City, KS, and Kansas City, MO. A contact in Britain was confused, till I explained "It's a city bisected by a river, which also happens to be a state border, so technically it's two different cities." She said "Oh! Like Buda and Pest in Hungary!" "Exactly."

A chap I corresponded with elsewhere lives in upstate NY in an area where there are three different tax jurisdictions around him. He plans his shopping trips based on what taxes get charged where. When I suggested that when you counted in his time, the extra length of the shopping trips, and gas mileage and wear and tear on the car, it arguably cost him more overall that just going nearby would, he agreed. But he just didn't like taxes and would spend the extra time and money to avoid them.
______
Dennis

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I recall hearing about a place in Nevada that straddled counties.

Gambling and prostitution are both legal in NV, but it's one or the other - a county may have gambling or prostitution, but not both.

This place straddled the border between two counties, one with legal gambling, and the other with legal prostitution. So one side was a casino with gambling, and when a patron decided he'd prefer a different pleasure to relieve him of his money, he went out the front door and strolled around to the rear. (IIRC, there was no direct connection inside the building - that would have been pushing it. )

You also have places like Kansas City, which exists as Kansas City, KS, and Kansas City, MO. A contact in Britain was confused, till I explained "It's a city bisected by a river, which also happens to be a state border, so technically it's two different cities." She said "Oh! Like Buda and Pest in Hungary!" "Exactly."

A chap I corresponded with elsewhere lives in upstate NY in an area where there are three different tax jurisdictions around him. He plans his shopping trips based on what taxes get charged where. When I suggested that when you counted in his time, the extra length of the shopping trips, and gas mileage and wear and tear on the car, it arguably cost him more overall that just going nearby would, he agreed. But he just didn't like taxes and would spend the extra time and money to avoid them.
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Dennis

Texarkana, TX and AR. St Louis, MO and IL.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Thank you everyone again for your comments. Maisy is no longer with us. I bawled my eyes out. I feel guilty but deep down know I did the right thing. Right now I'm giving Sweetpea lots of hugs and cuddles.

Sent from my XT1528

Hugs and love hun.