The Vent and Rant Thread

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

<grin>

What sort of regulations and tests exist is very much a local matter.

One likely selector will be whether liquor is a state monopoly. For instance, I grew up in Philadelphia, and Pennsylvania is a place where liquor is a state monopoly. You can only buy hard liquor in State Stores, and the selection will be those approved by the state. Liquor is also more expensive, with a variety of state excise taxes and surcharges in top of sales taxes. [SNIP]

My favorite of the PA state surcharges is the 33% emergency tax originally levied to pay for cleaning up the Great Pittsburgh Flood of... wait for it... 1933. Not only are Pennsylvanians still paying that "emergency" tax, it's levied on top of all the other federal and state liquor taxes... except, of course, for the state sales tax which is calculated as 1.06x(total-bill-after-all-other-taxes-have-been-applied). Some counties have additional sales tax increments above the state's 6%, so in Pittsburgh, for example, that's actually 1.07x.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

PA also still has vestiges of Puritan heritage, with Blue laws that specify what you may not do on Sunday. When I was a small child, I recall alcohol as being a not on Sunday thing, and it wasn't till I was a late teenager that it became legal to sell stuff like beer in supermarkets.

Actually it's still illegal to sell beer in supermarkets. The local supermarkets have a legal hack around that, however. They open a "cafe" that serves prepared food and seats at least [however-many-people-required-by-law], so they can get a license to sell beer in their restaurant (both for consumption in the cafe portion of the store, and to go). To serve wine legally, they'd need more seats, and a larger menu, but would not be permitted to sell it to go.

And a very few—under 10 last I heard—supermarkets have a special "experimental" deal with the State Liquor Control Board allowing them to sell wine and beer from the supermarket. It's an experiment to make sure that nothing bad happens as a consequence. [Because the experience of the majority of the country outside PA couldn't possibly be relevant to what could happen in PA, of course!]
[BIG SNIP]

[badgoodDeb]

Thanks, Xenophon! I'm an ex-PA-er, so this was interesting. I always wonder, when I go back for visits. And it may be relevant if I retire there.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

My favorite of the PA state surcharges is the 33% emergency tax originally levied to pay for cleaning up the Great Pittsburgh Flood of... wait for it... 1933. Not only are Pennsylvanians still paying that "emergency" tax, it's levied on top of all the other federal and state liquor taxes... except, of course, for the state sales tax which is calculated as 1.06x(total-bill-after-all-other-taxes-have-been-applied). Some counties have additional sales tax increments above the state's 6%, so in Pittsburgh, for example, that's actually 1.07x.

<chuckle> Once imposed, taxes don't go away without dynamite.

There's a reason for the healthy smuggling trade between PA and neighboring DE and NJ...

(NY is also fun like that. I chap I corresponded with elsewhere lives in an area where there are three separate local tax jurisdictions around him, with different rules on what is taxed and how much. He plans his shopping based on where items have lowest taxes. When I said that counting in his time, wear and tear on his car, and cost of gas, he might actually be spending more money overall on his purchases, he agreed, but just didn't like taxes and was willing to spend the extra time and money to avoid them.)

Actually it's still illegal to sell beer in supermarkets. The local supermarkets have a legal hack around that, however. They open a "cafe" that serves prepared food and seats at least [however-many-people-required-by-law], so they can get a license to sell beer in their restaurant (both for consumption in the cafe portion of the store, and to go). To serve wine legally, they'd need more seats, and a larger menu, but would not be permitted to sell it to go.

Okay, thanks. I haven't been back to Philly save for brief visits in decades, so I was relying on fallible memory.

And a very few—under 10 last I heard—supermarkets have a special "experimental" deal with the State Liquor Control Board allowing them to sell wine and beer from the supermarket. It's an experiment to make sure that nothing bad happens as a consequence. [Because the experience of the majority of the country outside PA couldn't possibly be relevant to what could happen in PA, of course!]
[BIG SNIP]

That sounds typical of just about anyplace. I'm sure you can find similar idiocy elsewhere. Things like that are part of what I think of as formal culture, and change very slowly.

PA does seem to be highly ranked in political corruption. An old friend once claimed the PA State Highway Department was the second largest source of political patronage jobs in the country, behind only the federal government, and you could tell which counties had good pull in Harrisburg, the state capitol, by how well the roads were maintained. I could easily believe it.

One of the historical personages in PA was a chap named Matthew Quay, who could have given NYC's infamous Boss Tweed lessons in machine politics. He was once refused a seat in the US Senate as a Republican candidate for being too corrupt for even that body. He coined the phrase "Politics consists of taking the votes from the many and the money from the few, under the guise of protecting each from the other".
______
Dennis

[badgoodDeb]

Well, coming from Chicago and Illinois, I'm used to quite a lot of government corruption .....

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Well, coming from Chicago and Illinois, I'm used to quite a lot of government corruption .....

A friend from Chicago talked about local politics. He said folks there expected their politicians to be corrupt, but did demand they at least be amusing.

He gave the example of a state assemblyman who was excoriated by a local newspaper, and accused of high crimes, misdemeanors, and mopery and dopery on the spaceways.

The only part of their savage criticism the assemblyman actually responded to was the accusation he did not live in the district he represented. If that were proven, he'd be removed from office immediately and a special election held to replace him. Living in the district you represented was a hard and fast requirement for holding office.

The rest - accusations of fraud, bribery, racketeering, embezzlement - were all...negotiable.

I remember back when Mayor Daley controlled Chicago for years, with the aid of a fine tuned political machine. He was finally kicked out of office by a reform slate dedicated to ending machine politics, but I wondered if that actually made things better for Chicago citizens.

The implicit contract between the machine and voters is "You support the machine, and the machine takes care of you." Successful machines stayed in power because they kept their part of the deal and did try to take care of supporters. What I was able to see from afar following Daley's exit was that the reform slate didn't do as good a job of keeping their part of the bargain.

(My SO grew up on Long Island under a Republican machine, was involved in local politics, and intimately familiar with the process. The machine was not a bad thing for those living under it.)
______
Dennis

[wodin]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

... with the aid of a fine tuned political machine...
Dennis

I'm quite familiar with political machines, living in the bluest of all blue states, where the Democratic machine has been in power for decades.


Hawaii State Senate

Hawaii State House

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

it's levied on top of all the other federal and state liquor taxes...

Taxes on top of taxes should be prohibited by some sort of rule that is in effect for he entire world. If you buy something in the US, costing $300, and $50 to ship, and import it into the Netherlands, you pay:

Product: $300
Shipment: $50
Clearance: $14.64
Import tax: 4.2% at least
VAT: 21% (on top of everything, including shipping, clearance, and import tax)

Total: $459

So that's about $109 in taxes, most of which is VAT. IMHO, Import tax and VAT should only be levied over the original purchasing price, and NOT on top of one another. The difference:

Product: $300
Import tax: 4.2% ($12.60)
VAT: 21% ($63)
Shipment: $50
Clearance: $14.64

Total: 440.24

Difference: $18.76

It's not a really big difference, but the more expensive the product and the higher the shipment costs, the bigger the difference becomes.

IIRC, it's the same with environmental taxes; they are levied on top of the price you pay for use of gas, water, and electricity, and VAT is calculated on top of everything (including the environmental tax).

[Hitch]

Well, folks, this story isn't really a rant. Or a vent. It's more, well, something else altogether. Not only that, but I learned something important about my own antecedents and genetics. A Twofer!

There I was, standing in the checkout line of the local greengrocers, after a rather long day, heading into a longer night. I'd come from my doc's office, and I'd had a wee medical procedure. Not much, mind you, but..y'know. A little numbing there, a little here, and maybe, just maybe, you're not on top of your game.

It's rush hour, on top of everything else. The lines are extremely--extremely--long. I finally get to the cashier, I've risked life and limb loading and unloading the cursed cart, and I'm ready to swipe my chipped card, right?

The cashier, a mature lady, looks up at me, BEAMS like a lighthouse, and says "Oh, GREAT news!"

I look up at her, thinking..."uh....price of eggs go down?"

And she announces--loudly enough to be heard from one end of the store to the other...smiling like a drunken Cheshire cat.."It's SENIOR DAY!!!"

I think I blinked once, and then my mouth opened, and this ungodly sound came out. Loudly, incoherently, and worse, In Public. They probably heard me back in the damn dairy section.

I swear, until that moment, I had no idea that I was part Wookie.

Before you ask...yes, she still has her arms.

(Worse? Behind me, two carts back, some guy is now ROLLING with laughter. Meanwhile, the woman immediately behind me, who looks almost EXACTLY like a 48ish Annette Funicello, perks up and announces "I'm 69!" I considered shooting both of them, but...I figured that the local constabulary might frown on my concept of "imminent harm" and "self-defense.")



Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........ ...


Hitch

[Freeshadow]

The lights in the grocery store change to 70ies disco style.
Background music changes to Baccara.
The whole line behind Hitch starts singing:


Sister,
Your eyes are full of hesitation,
Sure makes me wonder,
If you know what your looking for.

Listen I got to keep my reputation,
I'm in frustration
You try me once, there will be gore.

Oooohh! Yessir, she can Wookie,
if you choose your wording wrong.
She can Wookie, spooky Wookie all night looong.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

The lights in the grocery store change to 70ies disco style.
Background music changes to Baccara.
The whole line behind Hitch starts singing:
...

I recognized the song these lyrics where based on within the first three lines. It confirms to me that I've heard too much bad music in the past

Therefore, I hate you for pointing that out to me

[covingtoncat73]

That is hilarious, Hitch. "Let the Wookie win."

I was with myt OLDER cousin's second baby once and a cashier asked me if she was my grandbaby. I. Was. 29.

[wodin]

You know when your getting a little long in the tooth when they just go ahead and deduct the senior discount without asking.

First a couple of quotes from long time California politician Jesse Unruh:

"If you can't take their [lobbyists] money, drink their booze, eat their food, screw their women and vote against them, you don't belong here."

"Money is the mother's milk of politics."

Originally Posted by wodin

I'm quite familiar with political machines, living in the bluest of all blue states, where the Democratic machine has been in power for decades.

<snip image.>

Political machines are not necessarily a bad thing for the people in their area.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

. . .

The implicit contract between the machine and voters is "You support the machine, and the machine takes care of you." Successful machines stayed in power because they kept their part of the deal and did try to take care of supporters. What I was able to see from afar following Daley's exit was that the reform slate didn't do as good a job of keeping their part of the bargain.

(My SO grew up on Long Island under a Republican machine, was involved in local politics, and intimately familiar with the process. The machine was not a bad thing for those living under it.)
______
Dennis

Machines only stay in power because people keep voting for them. I am of the opinion that people do vote in what they perceive to be their best interest relative to their Umwelt. (My favorite expand my vocabulary word for the week).

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

First a couple of quotes from long time California politician Jesse Unruh:

Yep. Saw that before. The job of the lobbyist is to make the views of those he represents known to elected officials. The job of the elected officials is to represent their constituents. If what the elected official thinks the constituents want is at odds with what the lobbyist wants, the constituents win.

The primary goal of an elected official is to get reelected.

When an issue his an elected official's desk, there will be one of three responses:

My constituents will like it. It will get me votes! I'm in favor!

My constituents won't like it. It will cost me votes! I'm opposed!

My constituents won't care one way of the other, so I'll do a deal. My support on this thing you want, in exchange for your support on this thing my constituents do care about.

The last is where the real work gets done.

Complaints about lobbyists miss the point. Politicians need votes. The need money to campaign to get votes, but money doesn't win elections, votes do. (Lack of money can lose elections.)

Political machines are not necessarily a bad thing for the people in their area.

If they were, they wouldn't exist in the area.

An old friend talked about Mexico back when the RPC was in undisputed power, and described it as "fascism that worked". The goal of an aspiring politician was to build a power base and then sell out to the ruling PRC party. The size and nature of the power base of the aspiring pol determined what the politician got in exchange from the PRC, and the politician's position and clout within the PRC when the dust settled.

Things are a bit more complicated now.

Machines only stay in power because people keep voting for them. I am of the opinion that people do vote in what they perceive to be their best interest relative to their Umwelt. (My favorite expand my vocabulary word for the week).

Exactly.

Whether what voters perceive as being in their best interest actually is is a different matter.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I swear, until that moment, I had no idea that I was part Wookie.

A friend in Boston is a major Star Wars fan, and does a splendid Wookie voice.

I just say "Oh, right. You're from that island off the south continent on Kashyyyk. They talk funny there."
______
Dennis