Is ebook piracy on the rise?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

You sure your not thinking of 1984?

BOb

bb says ++ungood

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by axel77

Sounds like a worked out a good questionaire, do you also already drawn have the hypotheses to test?

The hypothesis is that there could be fewer repetitive flame wars about copyright and DRM if there was a sticky with a poll in the forum listing all the common positions and allowing people to quickly and easily note their stands.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by cstross

I agree.
...

As for authors, I think there's a generation gap in perceptions: those aged over 40 are very likely to worry about "piracy" (except in the case of those who have been on the net since before they started selling novels), while the younger folks are mostly looking to leverage free distribution over the internet to boost their sales.

I suspect that part of the issue is that the older established authors tend to view older works as their retirement funds, i.e. they are works that can be republished after 10 or so years and thus, if you have enough older titles, will generate a steady income in your later years. If it's available in e-format, then that takes away the value of re-publishing rights. I've read Jerry Pournelle allude to this.

I also suspect that part of the equation is do you feel that most people are honest or not. People who think that most people are honest, go forward with the idea that if you make it easy for people to do the right thing (i.e. buy ebooks on line) then they will. People who think that most people are dishonest tend to think that if it's available on the darknet, then people will take the free version, i.e. steal it, and they won't get paid.

My thought is that you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The last Harry Potter book was available for download on the darknet _before_ it was available in dead tree format in the US. Better to figure out a way to make money on it.

[Ramen]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I've compiled a list of points of view expressed in this (and other) threads. Note that many of these are mutually exclusive-- this isn't meant to be a consensus, but an inventory of opinions expressed. I'm sure I missed some. Anyone want to chime in?

I was thinking we could have a survey or poll on sticky at the top of the section, so people could see that most of these arguments have been rehashed already, and see how people have weighed in over time.

DRM and piracy Points of View:[Listed points]

There are two main areas: Illegal vs legal (dependent on local laws, special cases) and heavy crime vs civil offense.

For the second area, I'd like to see the following added:

• Severity of offense and fitting punishment. The idea is to gauge where to place the offense and then going by that to choose a fitting punishment.
  • Worse than murder?
  • Worse than physical assault? With a weapon?
  • Worse than speeding in a residential area? School area?
  • Prison sentence or money only? (barring the absurd US money awarding system)
  • Worse than online-predators? (re: internet access)
  • Worse than cracking?
  • Worse than shop-lifting?
  • Worse than physical stealing? Break-in?
  • Worse than armed robbery?
  • Worse than syndicate crime?
  • etc
• What are acceptable counter-measures to copyright infringment?
  • Cost to society? (Big Brother/1984)
  • Effectiveness?
  • Efficiency? Overkill?
  • Alternate approach to prohibition? (Taxes, ads, ...)
  • etc

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by stepanok

I think it would be very very interesting if each and everyone of us arguing here would post ( in all honesty )the titles that he or she has on his ereader at the moment

I've just taken a look at the content on my 505 and every single eBook on it is legal.

[Greg Anos]

When Neko-chan gets done, we can make the answers into a serial number.

RSE - 1021324345....

[hidari]

Originally Posted by Ramen

There are two main areas: Illegal vs legal (dependent on local laws, special cases) and heavy crime vs civil offense.

For the second area, I'd like to see the following added:[list][*] Severity of offense and fitting punishment. The idea is to gauge where to place the offense and then going by that to choose a fitting punishment.

• Worse than murder?
• Worse than physical assault? With a weapon?
• Worse than speeding in a residential area? School area?
  

The above three prove my quote from Einstein Is true. Worse than murder..? what a joke. Why not worse than Genocide?...why not add that to the list.

[nekokami]

I am not a number! I am a free... er... maneki neko!

Actually, that's kind of an interesting idea.

[hidari]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I suspect that part of the issue is that the older established authors tend to view older works as their retirement funds, i.e. they are works that can be republished after 10 or so years and thus, if you have enough older titles, will generate a steady income in your later years.
it.

Who says that "older writers" have a right to get more money for resells of their books. In fact quite a few older "author" write even worse books.....than their "brilliant" first book. The paradigm is changing. The publishing industry, bookshops and writers need to wake up.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by stepanok

I think it would be very very interesting if each and everyone of us arguing here would post ( in all honesty )the titles that he or she has on his ereader at the moment

I suspect that most here don't wish to scroll through all that information.

Bought -
I've got roughly 600+ titles, all bought and paid for. 500+ titles from Baen books and 100+ books I've purchased via Sony Connect plus a hand full of books that I've bought from other online stores. I also have some 6000 dead tree books, including either paper back or hard back copies of many of the books that I have purchased in ebook format. (for example, CStross's Family Trade series)

not bought -
A fair number of books from project G. including many that I have in dead tree format. I also have a number of my old favorites that are not available for purchase in ebook format that I have download, just to have in a easy to access format. I do have all those books in either paper back format or hard back format, some in multiple copies, such as The Lord of the Rings and the Harry Potter books. Will I buy them when they become available in ebook format? Yep.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Ramen

There are two main areas: Illegal vs legal (dependent on local laws, special cases) and heavy crime vs civil offense.

For the second area, I'd like to see the following added:

• Severity of offense and fitting punishment. The idea is to gauge where to place the offense and then going by that to choose a fitting punishment.
  • Worse than murder?
  • Worse than physical assault? With a weapon?
  • Worse than speeding in a residential area? School area?
  • Prison sentence or money only? (barring the absurd US money awarding system)
  • Worse than online-predators? (re: internet access)
  • Worse than cracking?
  • Worse than shop-lifting?
  • Worse than physical stealing? Break-in?
  • Worse than armed robbery?
  • Worse than syndicate crime?
  • etc
• What are acceptable counter-measures to copyright infringment?
  • Cost to society? (Big Brother/1984)
  • Effectiveness?
  • Efficiency? Overkill?
  • Alternate approach to prohibition? (Taxes, ads, ...)
  • etc

I think the first section could be shortened a bit and possibly split into two parts, as you've combined severity with punishment in one case. If I were really worried about statistical validity, I'd have to rank the choices and make sure most people thought they were listed in descending order of severity to use "worse than" wording. I might use "as bad as" instead.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting with the second section, at least in terms of a survey, though I agree these are issues worth discussing.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by hidari

Who says that "older writers" have a right to get more money for resells of their books. In fact quite a few older "author" write even worse books.....than their "brilliant" first book. The paradigm is changing. The publishing industry, bookshops and writers need to wake up.

I'm not saying that they have a right, I'm saying that this effects the way they view ebooks. They see it as a threat to their financial security. Personally, I think they would do better to see it as an opportunity to sale more of their older works, but they don't see it the same way.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Here's some to add:

- Ultimately, all information will be free.

Really, Steve, I couldn't disagree with you more. As more and more people produce "intellectual" rather than "physical" property, it can only become more and more commercially valued.

Take drug research as one simple example. Drug companies can spend literally billions to produce a commercially successful drug and, at the end of the day, what they are basically producing is a chemical formula - intellectual property. It's that that they "own" and which has value, not the physical chemicals which go to manufacture the drug; they often cost mere pennies.

If they couldn't profit from that chemical formula - that "information" - they wouldn't spend the money to produce it in the first place.

A more "mundane" example; the recipe for coke is "information" which belongs to the Coca Cola company and which only they are allowed to use. Once again, intellectual property which has immense commercial value.

[axel77]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Really, Steve, I couldn't disagree with you more. As more and more people produce "intellectual" rather than "physical" property, it can only become more and more commercially valued.

Take drug research as one simple example. Drug companies can spend literally billions to produce a commercially successful drug and, at the end of the day, what they are basically producing is a chemical formula - intellectual property. It's that that they "own" and which has value, not the physical chemicals which go to manufacture the drug; they often cost mere pennies.

If they couldn't profit from that chemical formula - that "information" - they wouldn't spend the money to produce it in the first place.

A more "mundane" example; the recipe for coke is "information" which belongs to the Coca Cola company and which only they are allowed to use. Once again, intellectual property which has immense commercial value.

Harry with all due respect you got 2 things wrong.

*Ultimatly* All information is free. That is currently in most countries 70 years after death of the creator, or 90 years after creation in case of group work. Having right on Information permanently is only mindboggling, as the kids of the kids of the kids of the kids of shakespear still should get money every time we perform shakespear... It was always only a tempory admission, at one point it becomes culture and actually part of what we are..

Second the coke formular is a trade *secret*, they could have patented it a hundread years ago, but that patent would have runned out by far now. Which is BTW. a patent thats something fully different than a copyright, you cannot "copyright" a recipe anyway, you need a patent. Well the copyright would be on the right of copying exact that piece of pape. But not of taking the idea and just use it or present it in another wording.

Coca Cola is doing well to keep the recipe secret, that works indefinetly as long as they can manage to keep it secret. If they are found out, they cannot go to any court if someone else starts to produce coke.

If a drug company invests to create a new medicament to do get a patent on it, and the right to exclusevly sell it for 20 years. After 20 years altough it becomes "general knowledge" and anybody may. Then we get generica being much cheaper. 20 years is enough time to make a reasonable profit of the investion. But we talk about copyright here, and this is patent law. Its really quite a different "construction site" to talk about, and I think this topic is hot already enough without throwing in new things. Lets keep it on topic, shall we?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by axel77

*Ultimatly* All information is free.

You and I have interpreted what Steve said differently, axel. I understand him to mean "at some point in the future, all information will be freely available". That is what I disagree with. Of course I'm not in favour of perpetual copyright, or anything like that!

Second the coke formular is a trade *secret*

Yes, I'm well aware of that .

Coca Cola is doing well to keep the recipe secret, that works indefinetly as long as they can manage to keep it secret. If they are found out, they cannot go to any court if someone else starts to produce coke.

I'm not entirely certain that's true. Anyone know for sure?

If a drug company invests to create a new medicament to do get a patent on it, and the right to exclusevly sell it for 20 years. After 20 years altough it becomes "general knowledge" and anybody may. Then we get generica being much cheaper. 20 years is enough time to make a reasonable profit of the investion. But we talk about copyright here, and this is patent law. Its really quite a different "construction site" to talk about, and I think this topic is hot already enough without throwing in new things. Lets keep it on topic, shall we?

Again, I am well aware of the difference between copyright and patents, but at the end of the day, both are forms of "information". Copyright protects a specific "expression" of work, whereas patent protects a process or invention, but both are equally "information".