Dotcom raid illegal

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by John F

Has this actually been determined (library ebook lending, again, in the U.S.). I was under the impression that so far the libraries haven't really pushed the issue?

Definitely. An author or publisher has to specifically sign up with Overdrive (the library eBook service) and that's purely voluntary. If a book isn't on the Overdrive system, the library can't get it.

[BeccaPrice]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Definitely. An author or publisher has to specifically sign up with Overdrive (the library eBook service) and that's purely voluntary. If a book isn't on the Overdrive system, the library can't get it.

Except that I think this is changing. Aren't some of the bigger library systems buying their own ebooks and setting up their own system for checkouts? Seems to me I read something about that in Teleread every now and then.

[John F]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Definitely. An author or publisher has to specifically sign up with Overdrive (the library eBook service) and that's purely voluntary. If a book isn't on the Overdrive system, the library can't get it.

That can't be right. So 3M goes through overdrive? And I'm not asking about the way it works, I'm asking what is legal (maybe even tested through an appeals process (IANAL, so I'm not sure how it works)).

[HarryT]

Never heard of "3M" (unless you're talking about the mining company?); I'm talking specifically about Overdrive, which is the system that supplies the majority of libraries with their eBooks.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Definitely. An author or publisher has to specifically sign up with Overdrive (the library eBook service) and that's purely voluntary. If a book isn't on the Overdrive system, the library can't get it.

There are libraries using a different method--buying a dozen Kindles or other ereaders, loading those up with books, and loaning out the hardware. For that, they don't need any specific licensing permissions.

Last I heard, Amazon was still waffling about whether loaning a Kindle is acceptable in their TOS. They started to say no, and then maybe changed that, but didn't want to make any clear definitive statement.

[John F]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Never heard of "3M" (unless you're talking about the mining company?); I'm talking specifically about Overdrive, which is the system that supplies the majority of libraries with their eBooks.

Here is a story about 3M:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/20/3...for-21st-cent/

I don't see any mention of Overdrive. They do mention about Random House participating.

[Catlady]

The Free Library of Philadelphia, for example, offers e-books outside of Overdrive: see here.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by John F

I was under the impression that so far the libraries haven't really pushed the issue?

Right. Libraries obey the rules. For many years, they have been radically overcharged by periodical publishers compared to what you or I would pay. The only real library issue-pushing is to complain (google "serials crisis"). Now, the scholars themselves, unlike libraries, often take things in their own hands, such as by putting pdf's of their articles on personal web sites.

Compared to how the journal companies treat libraries, trade publishers are mostly (not all) puppy-dogs.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Never heard of "3M" (unless you're talking about the mining company?); I'm talking specifically about Overdrive, which is the system that supplies the majority of libraries with their eBooks.

They are an Overdrive competitor, in the US, but have been slow to catch on. If promises are kept, I will be have ePUB DRM borrowing access to Penguin's entire catalog except new releases, via 3M and the Brooklyn Public Library, sometime next month.

[Giggleton]

Now it's getting interesting. Why shouldn't I or an institution be able to lend books, e or otherwise, that we legally purchase? Or do we from hereafter need the creators permission to share the created information?

[HarryT]

You don't need anyone's permission to lend a paper book. You do need permission to "lend" an ebook because "lending" actually means "creating another copy" in the case of an ebook, hence copyright law gets involved in the matter.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You don't need anyone's permission to lend a paper book. You do need permission to "lend" an ebook because "lending" actually means "creating another copy" in the case of an ebook, hence copyright law gets involved in the matter.

When I read a book I create a copy of it, in my mind or otherwise. This is similar to what a computer does when they read a book while storing it. But there really isn't any need for any of us to come up with esoteric arguments to debate the morality of sharing information.

If I was to say that we should simply share all information, you might think that I was advocating piracy, so I won't say that.

More simply put, you must believe that single user cloud access to ebooks purchased legally by other users is fine and dandy? That would be akin to the physical libraries of the past I believe.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by JoeD

But the tax payer does and the library tracks your check outs in order to make payments (depending on the terms agreed with the rights holders)

But I'm sure you already know that, which made the library post odd.

Payments to rights holders? Are you talking about the UK?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Belfaborac

That's a seriously stupid argument. Libraries, however they're run, operate within a framework which allows them to do what they do legally, with the knowledge and support (grudging or otherwise) of those to whom the book rights belong. Pirates do not.

The frameworks are a lot more similar than you might think. The main difference is perception.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Piracy is in the same ballpark with book shoplifting and plagiarism

Copyright infringement has nothing to do with shoplifting or plagiarism.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Even the copyright laws allow for a big gray area called fair use.

Don't worry, the industry is hard at work to get rid of the gray area.