Doctorow on the iPad

[DawnFalcon]

And if you want the same file in another app? Oh, just load another copy of the same file on. Sigh.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And if you want the same file in another app? Oh, just load another copy of the same file on. Sigh.

Yep, that's THE major drawback that's letting me resist the temptation to buy an iPad right now.

It needs a real file management system so you can just get the files into every program that supports that file type from a central location just like on a PC or MAC.

I can live with having to use iTunes to drag and drop--not ideal but I can manage as drag and drop is drag and drop at the end of the day regardless of whether I'm opening "My Computer" or a 3rd party program to do it.

But I should be able to drag and drop into folders that can be accessed by multiple apps, not have to drag stuff to every app I want to use that file, and presumably waste space on the iPad by having multiple copies of the same files.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And if you want the same file in another app? Oh, just load another copy of the same file on. Sigh.

I simply do not understand how this can be the case. So if I have 3 different picture viewing apps, I have to store 3 copies of every picture within each app? Tell me that is not accurate. There must be a central repository or folder for all media.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I simply do not understand how this can be the case. So if I have 3 different picture viewing apps, I have to store 3 copies of every picture within each app? Tell me that is not accurate. There must be a central repository or folder for all media.

Best I can tell there is not.

It does seem like there may be a search feature in some apps to find media--but I only played with it briefly and it seemed to be pulling up internet stuff rather than local stuff.

And that's with PDFs, I haven't played around with photos at all.

In any case, there's not a clear, easy to use file management system. It's either multiple copies, or a very clunky way at getting at files through multiple apps.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Best I can tell there is not.

It does seem like there may be a search feature in some apps to find media--but I only played with it briefly and it seemed to be pulling up internet stuff rather than local stuff.

And that's with PDFs, I haven't played around with photos at all.

In any case, there's not a clear, easy to use file management system. It's either multiple copies, or a very clunky way at getting at files through multiple apps.

Thats not entirely right!

eg photos are all stored in one place I can view a pic then open it in a photo editing app and save it it will save to the photo folder and then be editable in other apps.

Music is all stored in one place and can be accesed from any app that chooses to support it.

Both of those things are also the same way already on the iPhone.

obviously apps can choose to store their own content seperate from that.

also in terms of getting stuff on and off the device its actually interesting heres a couple of highlights from here - http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._for_ipad.html

Additionally, iPad apps can now specify that their documents be shared wirelessly. With that configuration, the iPad will make available each apps' documents, allowing the user to wirelessly mount their iPad via WiFi and simply drag and drop files back and forth between it and their desktop computer.

On the desktop system, the iPad will show up as a share containing a documents folder for each app that enables sharing. For example, a user with iWork apps will be able to wirelessly connect to their iPad as if it were a directly connected drive, and simply drag spreadsheet, presentation, or word processing files between their local system and the mobile device as desired.

Documents copied to the app's shared folder will be graphically presented by the app when it launches, sparing users from having to figure out where to look for their document files and avoiding any need to sort through different kinds of documents. The document listing also presents each file as a large preview akin to Quick View on the Mac OS X desktop.

[dmaul1114]

Like I said, I wasn't sure about photos beyond knowing that the synching system for photos is a pain. That really needs drag and drop vs. synch to make it easier to just add a couple photos here and there. To do that now you need an iPad photo folder on your PC and then put just the picks (and sub-folders of pics to make albums) in there and synch that every time you add pics to it. Other wise if you sync, and then go back at a later date and sync another folder from another location on the PC it will remove the existing photos from the iPad and only the new will remain.

Music I assumed was in one place, but didn't bother with that as I wouldn't use music on a tablet.

So I was just speaking of PDFs as those type of documents are the only thing I played around with as one of my main interests in a tablet is reading pdfs of scholarly articles etc. For those there doesn't seem to be a central file location. As you note, even with the wifi sharing, each app has it's own location which is very clunky vs. just having a file system like windows and macs and being able to open files through apps by browsing to the location in the open menu.

In any case, none of this is unmanageable. But it's too much hassle in a $500+ device so I'll wait and see if Android tablets are better on that front, if Apple adds a file management system via update or the 2nd gen iPad.

I don't need a full tablet PC, but I do want PC like file management where I can just sort through folders to find the file I want to open (or through the "open" menu in apps like in pc programs), drag and drop content into folders (even if it's in iTunes) etc.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

So I was just speaking of PDFs as those type of documents are the only thing I played around with as one of my main interests in a tablet is reading pdfs of scholarly articles etc. For those there doesn't seem to be a central file location. As you note, even with the wifi sharing, each app has it's own location which is very clunky vs. just having a file system like windows and macs and being able to open files through apps by browsing to the location in the open menu.

hmm thats not how I read it.

I got that if I put a PDF in the file store area when im in app and go to open a file any apps that the app recognises will be available including those created in the app or imported directly into that app but also those in the 'store' folder.

[dmaul1114]

It could be, but I couldn't see that. But the only other PDF my girlfriend had was iPDF and we couldn't figure out how to get PDFs in that period.

Anyone have Goodreader and iAnnotate? If so can you open files downloaded into Goodreader in iAnnotate in that apps menu? Or do you have to find a way to get the file into iAnnotate (drag and drop in itunes, wifi transfer, webdownload etc.)?

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

It could be, but I couldn't see that. But the only other PDF my girlfriend had was iPDF and we couldn't figure out how to get PDFs in that period.

Anyone have Goodreader and iAnnotate? If so can you open files downloaded into Goodreader in iAnnotate in that apps menu? Or do you have to find a way to get the file into iAnnotate (drag and drop in itunes, wifi transfer, webdownload etc.)?

The issue which is a frustrating one is that it may be that the apps themselves dont support it yet. so even trying taht doesnt clarify it totally.

many apps do seem to not yet use the complete functionality though im sure updates will come soon.

[stustaff]

Wow stumbled on this while looking into it,

more info and looks a great aspp for PDF

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showth...threadid=50460

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Wow stumbled on this while looking into it,

more info and looks a great aspp for PDF

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showth...threadid=50460

Good find!

If that works well--or another decent file manager app comes out--that would solve my biggest problem with the iPad.

Assuming I can go in there, click a file, select which app it should open in etc.

Still not ideal vs. each app having an "open" menu, but I could probably work with that.

I really hope it works out, as what I keep reading about Android tablets is like 5-6 hour battery life, early ones look thicker and heavier than the ipad, I doubt the touch screens will be so super responsive etc. So those are big advantages to the iPad currently.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Good find!

If that works well--or another decent file manager app comes out--that would solve my biggest problem with the iPad.

Assuming I can go in there, click a file, select which app it should open in etc.

Still not ideal vs. each app having an "open" menu, but I could probably work with that.

I really hope it works out, as what I keep reading about Android tablets is like 5-6 hour battery life, early ones look thicker and heavier than the ipad, I doubt the touch screens will be so super responsive etc. So those are big advantages to the iPad currently.

it looks like that app is able to open files from the iPads own photo and documents folders.

if other apps copythis abilityits certainly a win.

and now iPhone 4.0 will be on iPad by7 the Fall we can listen to Pandora in the background whilst doing it all.

lots of good announcemts from 4.0 except I may finnally have to upgrade my iPhone original.

[Lemurion]

From what I can tell, a number of issues people (myself included) have with the iPad come from a clash of paradigms.

In my experience there are two basic approaches to media/data manipulation and consumption. One is what I call the "action model," where you select an action (or open an application) and then choose what to apply it to. The second is what I call the "object model" where you select an object (or file) and then choose which action to apply to it.

Apple devices generally run on the action model; you can see this even in the idea of using iTunes to manage the media on your device. This works very well for a lot of people.

Unfortunately, not everyone likes the action model, some people much prefer the object model, and they are the ones who often feel uncomfortable with iTunes and Apple devices in general. I don't see this every going away.

So while the iPad is a great device, for those of us who prefer the object model it's always going to feel just somehow wrong.

[DawnFalcon]

There is essentially no drawback to implementing a file browser, though.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

There is essentially no drawback to implementing a file browser, though.

There is one, but it's only a drawback from the perspective of those controlling the platform. Implementing a useful file browser essentially involves moving away from a pure action model to one that incorporates features of the object model.

One of Apple's great strengths is its use experience - and one of the ways they control and build upon that is by making it very easy to do what the designers think you should do in the way they think you should do it. Going to the object model from the action model takes away much of their ability to direct and control the user experience.

This moves it away from the standard Apple paradigm, and that change in the kind of user experience is a drawback from the perspective of a company that's trying to sell a mindset and experience as much as anything else.