DOJ suing Apple over ebooks. - Page 18

plib · 04-13-2012, 08:30 AM

I'm not convinced day by day fluctuations in "the market" mean much at all. Warren Buffet doesn't appear to pay much attention to them.

kennyc · 04-13-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plib

I'm not convinced day by day fluctuations in "the market" mean much at all. Warren Buffet doesn't appear to pay much attention to them.

Who?

plib · 04-13-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Who?

He's just an amateur day-trader.

kennyc · 04-13-2012, 09:20 AM

Thought so.

ProfCrash · 04-13-2012, 10:03 AM

Is BN complaining about the end of Agency Pricing? I have not seen those articles.

sadievan · 04-13-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Windowing is fair game.
Perfectly legal.
Totally stupid and self-defeating but legal.
Remember, they tried it and it didn't help their cause any; folks screamed and headed for the library. (Or the darknet.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydog

Of course - all the above is why I mentioned it. It still remains an unknown.

What is Windowing?

Carol

Sydney's Mom · 04-13-2012, 10:55 AM

Windowing is the practice of holding back the ebook for 3 months to 6 months. They did it for Under the Dome - the book was available on the dark net the day after the hardback was released.

ProfCrash · 04-13-2012, 10:58 AM

If they resort to windowing, I might just resort to being a bad girl.

johnnyb · 04-13-2012, 10:59 AM

There will be no compensation for customers whatsoever... How can disadvantages be determined when there was no alternative comparable price (unlike gas or electricity, books differ too much to make them comparable 1:1). I think this is really a case of "you shouldn't have bought the book if you found it too pricey"... Another thing is that price itself is only secondary in this case here, more important is according to which procedure prices are being made. So this trial is more about the mechanics of pricing than about the level of prices itself. The admitted raise in ebook prices only serves as evidence that the mechanics currently in operation are not to the advantage of customers, on of the two factors that have been said to make the "agency model" obstruct free market practices (the other is that retailers should be able to determine prices).

ProfCrash · 04-13-2012, 11:03 AM

Amazon can compensate pretty easily. $14.99 - $9.99 = $4

Real simple.

I do understand that it is not that simple and it is not going to work that way. I also know that there is going to be an outcry if part of that $151 settlment money does not find its way into the hands of consumers.

I do think it would be harder for BN and Kobo to make a determination then Amazon because their stores had not been open as long. I am not even 100% certain how long Kobo was on the scene when Agency Pricing hit. Amazon had an established pricing scheme that was pretty well known, it was the cause of the problem. So it would be easier for Amazon to come up with something.

Graham · 04-13-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Amazon can compensate pretty easily. $14.99 - $9.99 = $4

Real simple.

Why should Amazon have to take the hit of organising and paying compensation (even if they pass the cost onto the publishers)? They're not named in the lawsuit, which effectively casts them as one of the victims in this.

Agency pricing forced them to put their prices up on the books in question.

Graham

ProfCrash · 04-13-2012, 11:09 AM

Who do you think is going to get the $151 million? Amazon is likely to get some of the settlement money from the Publishers because they were an injured party. I would expect that some of that settlement money will be passed on to the people who had bought books at an artifically inflated price.

I suspect that BN, Kobo, and Sony will get some as well, I just don't have the slightest clue how they would divie it up.

Graham · 04-13-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Who do you think is going to get the $151 million? Amazon is likely to get some of the settlement money from the Publishers because they were an injured party. I would expect that some of that settlement money will be passed on to the people who had bought books at an artifically inflated price.

I suspect that BN, Kobo, and Sony will get some as well, I just don't have the slightest clue how they would divie it up.

Good point.

But a bit of a public relations nightmare if so. How do you separate out the negative publicity associated with paying compensation from 'we're passing on the compensation to you'?

Graham

Graham · 04-13-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Who do you think is going to get the $151 million? <snip> I just don't have the slightest clue how they would divie it up.

And what about sites like poor old Fictionwise? How do you assess what business they would have lost (since this killed book club discounting), not just the increased prices that ex-Fictionwise consumers paid when buying those books from different stores.

Graham

John F · 04-13-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

...

I do think it would be harder for BN and Kobo to make a determination then Amazon because their stores had not been open as long. I am not even 100% certain how long Kobo was on the scene when Agency Pricing hit. Amazon had an established pricing scheme that was pretty well known, it was the cause of the problem. So it would be easier for Amazon to come up with something.

I believe that Kobo was active before the agency model. They had some great coupons previous to the Agency pricing/price fixing 6.

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04-13-2012, 08:30 AM	#256
plib Guru Posts: 777 Karma: 6356004 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kobo Touch	I'm not convinced day by day fluctuations in "the market" mean much at all. Warren Buffet doesn't appear to pay much attention to them.

04-13-2012, 09:20 AM	#259
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,891 Karma: 119230421 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	Thought so.

04-13-2012, 10:03 AM	#260
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Is BN complaining about the end of Agency Pricing? I have not seen those articles.

04-13-2012, 10:55 AM	#262
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,896 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	Windowing is the practice of holding back the ebook for 3 months to 6 months. They did it for Under the Dome - the book was available on the dark net the day after the hardback was released.

04-13-2012, 10:58 AM	#263
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	If they resort to windowing, I might just resort to being a bad girl.

04-13-2012, 10:59 AM	#264
johnnyb Cloud Reader Posts: 1,124 Karma: 4000066 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kindle Oasis, Kindle Scribe, iPad Pro 11	There will be no compensation for customers whatsoever... How can disadvantages be determined when there was no alternative comparable price (unlike gas or electricity, books differ too much to make them comparable 1:1). I think this is really a case of "you shouldn't have bought the book if you found it too pricey"... Another thing is that price itself is only secondary in this case here, more important is according to which procedure prices are being made. So this trial is more about the mechanics of pricing than about the level of prices itself. The admitted raise in ebook prices only serves as evidence that the mechanics currently in operation are not to the advantage of customers, on of the two factors that have been said to make the "agency model" obstruct free market practices (the other is that retailers should be able to determine prices).

04-13-2012, 11:03 AM	#265
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Amazon can compensate pretty easily. $14.99 - $9.99 = $4 Real simple. I do understand that it is not that simple and it is not going to work that way. I also know that there is going to be an outcry if part of that $151 settlment money does not find its way into the hands of consumers. I do think it would be harder for BN and Kobo to make a determination then Amazon because their stores had not been open as long. I am not even 100% certain how long Kobo was on the scene when Agency Pricing hit. Amazon had an established pricing scheme that was pretty well known, it was the cause of the problem. So it would be easier for Amazon to come up with something.

04-13-2012, 11:09 AM	#267
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Who do you think is going to get the $151 million? Amazon is likely to get some of the settlement money from the Publishers because they were an injured party. I would expect that some of that settlement money will be passed on to the people who had bought books at an artifically inflated price. I suspect that BN, Kobo, and Sony will get some as well, I just don't have the slightest clue how they would divie it up.

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