Massive wave of ebook piracy?

[sabredog]

Yep, this thread is about done now.

Two diametrically opposed groups.

The group that believes piracy is immoral, evil and directly attributable to the purported breakdown in society

The other group being those who just take what they want and best of all it is free. Who cares if they have vast collections of movies, ebooks and music? Get it while its free.

Somewhere in the middle sit the third and mostly forgotten group who tend to be less vocal, can see both points of view but are always drowned out with the cacophony of moralisations from both groups either side.

Just maybe the middle group might get heard and a better system results. Or then the sun might go nova as well....

[MrPLD]

Originally Posted by 300com

I'd rather paypal my favorite author direct than buy from Barns and Noble. I feel like I'm personally saying thank you.

And we the authors sincerely appreciate that sort of thing.

Regards,
Paul.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by sabredog

...

Just maybe the middle group might get heard and a better system results. Or then the sun might go nova as well....

Yep, life sucks, then ya die!



Yer right though this thread is pretty well cooked....we've been there before and it doesn't change the 12th time around.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

Strictly speaking, I think it's very simple.

1. The author/publisher has decided on what terms their work can be obtained.
2. You have no legal or moral right to that media outside of what the creators have offered.
3. If you don't like it, tough.

Where that falls down is that when a publisher refuses to sell a book for whatever reason, consumers don't have to do without. If the publishers don't like that, they have the power to do something about it. If they choose not to that's up to them, but there is no point stamping their feet about a problem they have created themselves.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Where that falls down is that when a publisher refuses to sell a book for whatever reason, consumers don't have to do without. If the publishers don't like that, they have the power to do something about it. If they choose not to that's up to them, but there is no point stamping their feet about a problem they have created themselves.

No. An owner of a piece of property gets to decide how to sell it, what to do with it. There is no requirement that that property has to be universally available.

And yes, there is reason to object to theft.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

Hmm...do I pay $2.39 for a copy of Risen, or download the complete works of Edgar Allen Poe and H. P. Lovecraft for free?

Strange days, folks. Strange days.

I stopped watching PBS because every show that caught my eye came wrapped in a beg-a-thon. Nowadays I just watch their stuff on Netflix or buy the more interesting stuff on XBL. Radio? I gave up on radio 20 years ago. Lately, I've gone with Last.FM and Pandora but even that is going away next month; I'll be getting a Zune Pass now that its available on XBOX. I don't mind renting (Infinite) music.

As to the abundance of free quality PD stuff, yes there is a lot of good stuff there. Also a lot of crap (Sturgeon's Law!).
More importantly to me, though, if you stick with PD you're stuck with the ideas and experiences of the past. You don't get to see the issues of today explored, debated, or illuminated. Emma Wodehouse's milieu is a fun place to visit but it's no place I want to live...
...not when I could be visiting Manticore or Torch...
...or Barrayar or Cetaganda...
...or Pern or Mote Prime or Tabletop or Trantor...

The oldtimers are good in their place but I don't live in the 19th century, I live in the 21st.
I want to see what today's writers see and feel, what they think; what they have to say. What they have to contribute to the common good.

And that is why I literally don't care about the pirates; I do care about what the publishers might do to keep the freeloader mentality of the pirates from spreading but the pirates themselves I waste no time on; they are meaningless, irrelevant. By choice.
They are simple consumption units who contribute nothing meaningful; not even the minimum of providing a few coins to the creative types.

The writers *I* know write because they *have* to write; the passion drives them. They have things to say.
I'm willing to listen and I'll encourage them the only way I can; with coin.
I may not have the talent to pay them back in story but that much I can do.

Pirates? They can go right ahead and keep on leaching and freeloading, rationalization or not.

When the dust settles at the tail end of this ongoing ebook technology disruption the pirates will only end up hurting publishers and right now I'm having trouble finding any sympathy for most of them. The ones I might feel for won't need it because they know which century they live in.

And the writers will keep on writing because it is their nature.
Scorpions sting, pirates steal, and writers write.

Let's face it, with 7 billion people on this tired old planet, there's bound to be a lot of worthless trash piling up. Our choice is to spend our time shoveling the manure out of the way or step around it and leave it behind as we move forward.
It's their choice not to contribute, after all.

[GhostHawk]

There were lots of posts earlier in this thread about society and its role in determining what is acceptable, ethical, etc.

What I didn't see posted from either side, is what is happening right now.

Society is deciding if going to the darknet for ebooks is ok or not.
There are obviously 2 very heated camps for this issue.

It doesn't in my opinion at least, fall into the same category as rape, slavery, murder etc. It falls more into the category of cheat on your taxes, speed, rolling through stop signs, etc.

Is there anyone out there who really thinks they have never broken the speed limit?
Speed limits are enforced mostly because it is a way to add people's dollars to city budgets.

Ebook Piracy on the other hand is slightly different. Exactly which way society will go on this issue is being decided even as we all madly post away in this thread. Only time will tell which camp is going to win in the end.

But all of you who are so set against it because it is "wrong" need to remember that in almost every case those who turn to it go there because they had no other choice.

Bit like driving the wrong way down a one way street because road construction keeps you from getting where you want to go any other way.

If Publishers would quit fighting ebooks, and start doing it the right way, people wouldn't get forced into doing it the wrong way.

And if you want to call that a rationalization, thats fine, I've gote mine, you've got yours, and I suspect never the twain will meet. We are all addicts here of one degree or another, and we are all addicted to the same thing, books. Some seem to be unhappy because some of us are not "paying" for our addiction. Instead of looking at it that way look at it the other way. Clear out the middle men, cut out the waste in publishing, trim away the fat, bring the price of paper books down.

Release ebooks at the same time as Hardcover, sell it for halfway between hardcover and Pback price until the paperback rolls. At that point it should drop to less than the paperback price.

After a reasonable period of time it should drop again, and again, and again. Until you have back list books that were introduced 5 years ago selling for a dollar or less.

So eventually how much you pay for a book will be determined by how badly you want to read it now. Or how long you are willing to wait for it to come down in price to where you can afford it.

In short, give us what we want. Or we will go elsewhere for it.
That is true across the board, be it fast food, entertainment, clothing, everything.
Give us what we want at a price we can afford, or we'll go elsewhere.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

QUOTE=GA Russell;1171497]Paul, I think that everyone would agree with your post #223 if you remove any sense of morality from it, and limit it to legal rights under current copyright law.

But then, what is the point of the comment?

I think that basing one's argument on the moral premise that the author deserves to be compensated for his work has merit. People who pirate just because they can evoke little sympathy.

But many here at MR feel that the current copyright laws extant in all (?) of the civilized world are unjust. So to say that the consumer has no legal right under an unjust law would be to encourage the response, "Yes! That's why the law is unjust! Therefore, it is morally permissible to pirate!"

It's late here, and I'm going to bed. My point is to say that I believe that the author's credible stance would be upon the moral argument that it is just for him to be paid, rather than upon the argument that anyone who disobeys a law is a bad person.

I know little about Australia that doesn't involve the Hawthorn Hawks! (By the way, congratulations on getting your first saint this week!) But here in the US, we have a long history of justifying the refusal to obey laws considered unjust going back to the Declaration of Independence. So it won't get a person far to condemn lawbreaking without showing that the law broken is a just one.[/QUOTE]

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by 300com

I'd rather paypal my favorite author direct than buy from Barns and Noble. I feel like I'm personally saying thank you.

I often buy CDs direct from music groups rather through Amazon. The group will see a larger profit and I'm rarely out anymore money.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by tompe

I would most definitely want all books to be in the public domain (or available using some creative commons license). So I act as I would like other people to act if I download some copy of a book that is still under copyright.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Yep, this thread is about done now.

Two diametrically opposed groups.

The group that believes piracy is immoral, evil and directly attributable to the purported breakdown in society

The other group being those who just take what they want and best of all it is free. Who cares if they have vast collections of movies, ebooks and music? Get it while its free.

Somewhere in the middle sit the third and mostly forgotten group who tend to be less vocal, can see both points of view but are always drowned out with the cacophony of moralisations from both groups either side.

Just maybe the middle group might get heard and a better system results. Or then the sun might go nova as well....

Or maybe the middle group will grow a pair?

[Krystian Galaj]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

While I do not have a very good opinion of you for approving of piracy, I do admire that you have the backbone to admit it instead of coming up with ridiculous, convoluted rationalizations to justify your actions.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Thank you, but it is strange to receive a compliment for saying that I have low moral standards.
To me the situation looks like an apple tree on the edge of a garden, were some branches are growing over the fence. On internet there would be a map pointing to the tree and saying "free apples". I would take one if was there and nobody was looking.

It think the compliment was meant to convey gratitude that you seemed to reinforce that particular person's "land of pink unicorns" viewpoint, rather than stating another viewpoint, for which that person is compulsed to post a lot of rolling and laughing and call it ridiculous and rationalization. Perhaps it's hitting the mark then...

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

It think the compliment was meant to convey gratitude that you seemed to reinforce that particular person's "land of pink unicorns" viewpoint, rather than stating another viewpoint, for which that person is compulsed to post a lot of rolling and laughing and call it ridiculous and rationalization. Perhaps it's hitting the mark then...

My, you are getting desperate for excuses. Either that, or the truth hurts and you're merely lashing back. I'm sorry if you fail to understand how hillarious stupid comments are.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Or maybe the middle group will grow a pair?

That comment just proved my point.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by sabredog

That comment just proved my point.

How, pray tell?