Seriously thoughtful How do you plan to prove you are a citizen?

[happy_terd]

We should let all of the illegal mexicans come over here without any papers or questions asked. Then when they are all over here we can sneak into their country. It could be an even swap.

This would also keep us away from the evil Canadians.

[wodin]

Here is a link to Arizona SENATE BILL 1070.

Unlike Napolitano and Holder, I've read it; have you?

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I don't understand the issue or the problem

Once again: Sure, but was that paperwork always technically "in-date"? In America, it's often not (although as far as the Federal government, who are supposed to control immigration, are concerned, you're stikk in America legally! - it's the Fed's own processing delays after all). And that means...oops, crime under this law. Despite the fact that the Federal government thinks you're a legal immigrant.

It's a situation where you can do everything right in legal immigration terms and still get screwed. And it's an easy fix, which the Governor is refusing to make. (Oh, they said "We won't use it like that". To which my response, as ever, is "well, you'll have no problem changing the wording then")

Honestly, I'm in favour of a low-cost card which acts as proper ID, drivers licence, donor card and carries critical medical warnings and so on. Verifying it's citizens identity *where the citizen requests it* is one of the proper functions of government. There shouldn't be any logging of usage, though.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Once again: Sure, but was that paperwork always technically "in-date"? In America, it's often not (although as far as the Federal government, who are supposed to control immigration, are concerned, you're stikk in America legally! - it's the Fed's own processing delays after all). And that means...oops, crime under this law. Despite the fact that the Federal government thinks you're a legal immigrant.

It's a situation where you can do everything right in legal immigration terms and still get screwed. And it's an easy fix, which the Governor is refusing to make.

ok, let's be perfectly clear here. you are NOT a resident of the US, have never been here and gone through the procedure to renew your paperwork. I am, and have renewed my paperwork, as well as assisted exchange students, guest workers, military spouses, temporary workers and family friends with renewing their information. first and foremost... there is NO confusion whatsoever regarding when the identification cards are going to expire. you are VERY CLEARLY told to expect a "minnimum of xxx weeks". and they are VERY clear about what the minnimum processing time. if you are told 8 weeks, and get it in 2, then you have a small miracle. you are NOT told 8 weeks and then get it in 10 if you have filled out everything correctly and in a timely fashion. while you are waiting on your new ID to arrive, the old one is punched so it is no longer valid, and you are given a new temporary ID. this is not rocket science. it works. it works well for those within the law.

regarding drivers licenses... I don't recall who brought that up. you do NOT have to be a legal resident of the United States to obtain a legally issued driving license. you simply have to prove your physical legal address, usually with a minnimum of two pieces of correspondence, ie; bank statement and some other type of bill. correspondence will not suffice

[DawnFalcon]

If you change track in immigration you can be left with old ID for several YEARS. This isn't a VISA renewal issue.

And hey, I don't set your driving licence rules. Also, I was suggesting it go into an ID card rather than the other way round.

(Oh...for someone who is not-me, you're making some assumptions about how much I've had in the way of interactions with US immigration. For others, not myself, yes, but...)

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

If you change track in immigration you can be left with old ID for several YEARS. This isn't a VISA renewal issue.

And hey, I don't set your driving licence rules. Also, I was suggesting it go into an ID card rather than the other way round.

I am perfectly aware of what it is. and I have sat in the various offices with different people going through the procedure. you?

there should be no real good legal reason for an immigrant to "change track" during the immigration process

[DawnFalcon]

Of course not, dual intent should be anathema and nobody should marry a US citizen.

....

Want a side dish with your rampant Xenophobia?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Of course not, dual intent should be anathema and nobody should marry a US citizen.

....

Want a side dish with your rampant Xenophobia?

oh boy you are really special aren't you? did you get the bit about military spouses? where do you think they come from? different countries bubba. and my "xenophobic" ass hosted them in my home for 9 months while waiting on the paperwork, went to countless interviews, and sat holding sobbing frustrated wives endless nights.

do you actually have a dog in this fight, or do you just like to stir it up?

[DawnFalcon]

So why did you attack changing immigration track then, given there are perfectly valid reasons to do so?

Your attacks, rather than your later defence, are telling.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

So why did you attack changing immigration track then, given there are perfectly valid reasons to do so?

Your attacks, rather than your later defence, are telling.

excuse me? what the hell are you talking about?

[mvisconte]

KK,

Don't let it bother you, she's that way with everyone -- "if you don't agree with you, there must be something wrong with you". She spouts drivel, and if you bite, you get ad hominem attacks, illogic, insults, and ricochet spewing. She doesn't discuss, she splatters. She has no basis, no reason, and is mildly amusing. Don't try logic, just have fun.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Your attacks, rather than your later defence, are telling.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

excuse me? what the hell are you talking about?

[mvisconte]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Well, you've just called your grasp of the issues sub-childlike. Which I fully agree with you is entirely accurate.

Bwa ha ha ha... now which of your imaginary friends told you to say that?

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Oh look, you're making a fool of yourself ....

You needed company.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And what is my kind, precisely? In the interests of you demonstrating how wrong you can be?

Uh... foolish? Now, you can't prove me wrong, you've presented too much evidence to the opposite.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Well, at least I'm not funny in the head like you.

The jury is still out on that. Nope, sorry. They're back. Guilty.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

According to your constitution, erm...no.

erm. What?

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

You're supporting a law which is going to land a lot of them in entirely unnecessary legal trouble. So... no, you're just lying. One way or another.

Silly wabbit. You may or may not be lying, but you are confused. And, just to be clear: I don't care. I didn't care about the snail darter and was pulling for the farmer that is was bankrupting. I am pulling for the citizens in AZ.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Again, what "sort" am I? (Hint: my basic political philosophy is one I share with Lincoln and Jefferson)

What "sort"? Well, so far, "the peculiar sort". Hint: Don't really care.

But just in passing regarding the philosophy that you share with Lincoln, is that the one where he represented a slave owner trying to get his slaves back, the one where he was willing to prevent the feds from interfering with any states that were slave-owning states, the one where he forbade his generals from freeing slaves in captured territories, that says that "blacks will never be equal and can't live on the same continent as whites"? Strange, that doesn't sound like you, but whatever.

No, wait, to be fair, I should apply your ... logic. If some of the words sound familiar, it's because they came from your lips/tips:

a) Thanks for proving just what an obtuse nut you are...
b) but your attacks rather than your logic are telling... us that you really are confused...
c) you are breathing your own histrionic crap and I am afraid that it is doing you no good. I certainly think it stinks, but some people like that.
d) I have not and will not take any position on your apparant lack of cogent thought, although it is pretty sad and it makes it hard to hold useful conversation... Oh wait, that was a position.
e) And we find out that you know precisely NOTHING about the actual issues, only your own delusional self-righteous view. Which is not really a surprise!
f) there really isn't an "f".
g) "Yes, you and your kind."
h) "And again, you evidently haven't heard that" it's none of your business. Hm... shouldn't you be whining for civil rights in China or changes to immigration laws in Mexico?
i) You haven't called for my head on a spit yet, for which I thank you, but I can't think that it's too far off.
j) No "J", either!
k) You don't really know how to debate, but you're fun at ad hominem attacks, insults, non-sequitur, or perhaps ADD.
l) Your little view is not even black and white, just murky, inky... nothing. I prescribe ice cream, chocolate, prn. STAT! if you prefer.
m) this list is getting pretty long isn't it?
n) isn't it?
o) Oh my, this makes as much sense as your single-minded myopia.
p) I'll brb.
q) Ah... where were we?
r) Oh wait, the Amazon was the Pirate. Hubba-hubba
s) "r" and "s" sound like "arse"
t) for two
u) are a silly person
v) Joe Arpaio? Really? Are you sure you don't mean Scott Baio? I heard that HE "Deliberately had at least two people killed and one paralysed for life, yes." I personally would not say it, because without specific proof, it would be libal, and I'm liable to get in trouble.
w) Are you still with us? Hey! Us! Are YOU still here? (yeah, we're here. We're at the bar.) Good ol' "Us".
x) This is where the naughty bits go.
y) don't you move to Arizona. I know they would welcome you. They're wonder people; except for the gangs, drug runners, extortionists. sex offenders, drunks, violent malcontents, and murderers. Normally it's not that bad, but lately the malcontents have refused to carry their illegal alien identification cards, preferring black-market stolen IDs.
z) your ability to be warm and engaging as an introduction to interesting, useful, and spirited intercourse is somewhat lacking. It could be that you weren't aware of that as an option, or perhaps don't have the social skills to carry on logical discourse, or maybe you're just ornery.


But seriously, Jefferson was twice the man you'll ever be.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by mvisconte

KK,

Don't let it bother you, she's that way with everyone -- "if you don't agree with you, there must be something wrong with you". She spouts drivel, and if you bite, you get ad hominem attacks, illogic, insults, and ricochet spewing. She doesn't discuss, she splatters. She has no basis, no reason, and is mildly amusing. Don't try logic, just have fun.

actually I think it is a he. an unhinged and angry he, but a he.

regardless, thanks for the reality check as this lifeform's reality obviously needs the periodic checking for reality

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by mvisconte

"if you don't agree with you, there must be something wrong with you".

Well yes, I'm perfectly aware that's your philosophy.

Bwa ha ha ha... now which of your imaginary friends told you to say that?

Sorry, I don't hear voices in my head, and I'm not interested in helping you deal with yours.

Now, you can't prove me wrong

No, you've proved yourself wrong, I quite agree! And of course you can't actually answer the question, because you have no idea.

erm. What?

Of course expecting you to be aware of what the American constitution actually says is a stretch, sorry about that.

I am pulling for the citizens in AZ.

Hint: A little bit of smoke, lots of air.

But just in passing regarding the philosophy that you share with Lincoln...

No, I'll leave your there-espoused views on the inferiority of anyone not of your race to you, I'm tolerant of people with different skin colours.

a) Thanks for proving just what an obtuse nut you are...

It's called sarcasm. You don't get it. Don't feel bad, you're American, it's cultural. But of course I wouldn't deploy it en-mass against you, no.

c) you are breathing your own histrionic crap and I am afraid that it is doing you no good. I certainly think it stinks, but some people like that.

Yes, how dare I actually hold views different from your own. Bearing in mind you're apparently still under the delusion that I'm some form of socialist.

h) "And again, you evidently haven't heard that" it's none of your business. Hm... shouldn't you be whining for civil rights in China or changes to immigration laws in Mexico?

Why would I do that? Again, you are just proving that you have absolutely no idea what my political views or why I consider job mobility important, and are making yourself look amazingly like a horse's rear end in doing so.

i) You haven't called for my head on a spit yet, for which I thank you, but I can't think that it's too far off.

Why would I want your head? It's worthless.

v) Joe Arpaio? Really?

Yes.

z) your ability to be warm and engaging...

Lol.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

excuse me? what the hell are you talking about?

At this point I'm going to have to disclaim responsibility for your ignorance.

Also, your reality check just bounced.