Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick.

[Spectrum]

Slightly off topic but here it is anyways on returning products...
Everything I buy nowadays is considered disposable since warranties mean nothing after 30 days, 90 days or one year 'limited' warranty! So I am careful when I buy and don't bother dealing with customer service located in India and the product that is made in China and sold in USA!

Total waste of time and money in many situations.

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

So I am careful when I buy and don't bother dealing with customer service located in India and the product that is made in China and sold in USA! Total waste of time and money in many situations.

I'm going through this right now. I just bought a Linksys router from Amazon and it dies completely a couple of time a day - only a power cycle brings it back. I've spent hours on the phone with Linksys support without success. They just read their script which usually involves resetting the router and rebuilding the networks from scratch.

The router cost $140 so now I have to decide...return it to Amazon or not? A few years ago I returned another Linksys router to Amazon when it arrived with broken parts rattling around inside. Recently I returned my K2 (for a variety of reasons well covered in other threads).

The banning stories have made me paranoid so I'm hesitating on this return. Intellectually, I think the banning frequency is probably low enough that it's unlikely to happen to me, but I buy so much stuff from Amazon it would be an inconvenience if it did happen.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by grisjuan

The router cost $140 so now I have to decide...return it to Amazon or not? A few years ago I returned another Linksys router to Amazon when it arrived with broken parts rattling around inside. Recently I returned my K2 (for a variety of reasons well covered in other threads).

Return it as an excange and get a new one. If your router is locking up it is probably a hard ware issue. Perhaps it is over heating maybe due to a bad power brick or something.

BOb

[pwjone1]

Originally Posted by grisjuan

I'm going through this right now. I just bought a Linksys router from Amazon and it dies completely a couple of time a day - only a power cycle brings it back. I've spent hours on the phone with Linksys support without success. They just read their script which usually involves resetting the router and rebuilding the networks from scratch.

The router cost $140 so now I have to decide...return it to Amazon or not? A few years ago I returned another Linksys router to Amazon when it arrived with broken parts rattling around inside. Recently I returned my K2 (for a variety of reasons well covered in other threads).

The banning stories have made me paranoid so I'm hesitating on this return. Intellectually, I think the banning frequency is probably low enough that it's unlikely to happen to me, but I buy so much stuff from Amazon it would be an inconvenience if it did happen.

How long have you had the router, I guess is the question. It it's out of Warranty, then I guess I would go buy another. Not really fair to expect Amazon (or any other retailer) to deal with something beyond the Warranty period. If it still under warranty, but over a week old, I'd probably ask Linksys to fix it. That will normally get them focussed a bit quicker, wherever support is located. Only if it were in the first week or so, and failed essentially right out of the box (including intermittents, the ratio of intermittent to solid fails is generally considered by us to be 8 or 9:1). But I'd probably also reflash it to the latest latest firmware, first.

I don't think retailers should really be expected to stand behind defective or shoddy products, outside of the initial sale. Some have 30 day policies, and then it's maybe OK, but the product should really be defective, at least in some unforeseeable way (examples would be shoes that don't fit, or electronics that was DOA, that sort of thing). It cannot be that you didn't do enough research, or that your spouse didn't like the color. If you return those things (as happens a lot at brick and mortar establishments, one of the reasons they cost more), then you're just driving up the costs for the rest of us.

But the part of this whole discussion that still bothers me, is that when you buy an e-Book, you're essentially starting a relationship with the vendor, it's more a service thing, and I'm not sure what I think about that. It would be sort of like the power company saying they didn't like that you were late paying a bill (Or maybe one of your relatives was), so they refuse to turn the power back on, ever. The DRM means that the purchased books are only ever going to work on that one Kindle, and at some point, that Kindle will die. If he had archived books, they're lost. If the DRM could be moved to another e-Book reader, then it would be less of a problem.

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by pwjone1

Only if it were in the first week or so, and failed essentially right out of the box (including intermittents, the ratio of intermittent to solid fails is generally considered by us to be 8 or 9:1). But I'd probably also reflash it to the latest latest firmware, first.

It's just over a week old and failed right out of the box. There isn't an updated firmware since it is a brand new model just released by Linksys. I did reset it twice and tinkered with the settings according to Linksys support's recommendations. I am going to ask Amazon to exchange it for a new one.

Anyway, my point wasn't so much about the details of the router, just that the possibility of a banning made me think twice about asking Amazon to do anything at all here. I'll probably redirect some of my electronics purchases to Newegg for a while to reduce the chances that I hit the Amazon returns limit.

[GraceKrispy]

Wow, that took a long time to read through the thread! Very interesting. I had a very unsatisfactory experience with Amazon's (which got worse as I tried to navigate their customer service) about 4-5 years ago. I have to say, going "Amazon-less" has not been a chore for me.

[astra]

Originally Posted by pwjone1

I don't think retailers should really be expected to stand behind defective or shoddy products, outside of the initial sale. Some have 30 day policies

Amazon has 30 days return if I am not mistaken.
Also, I would not make retail's life so easy and take away responsibility for what they sell. It is retailer's choice what to sell. It is their responsibility to sell a good quality product, so their customers will be satisfied. If they didn't make a proper research and sell shoddy products they should accept the consequences.

P.S. I am not saying Linksys is bad. I believe it is one of the very best.

[pwjone1]

Originally Posted by astra

Amazon has 30 days return if I am not mistaken.
Also, I would not make retail's life so easy and take away responsibility for what they sell. It is retailer's choice what to sell. It is their responsibility to sell a good quality product, so their customers will be satisfied. If they didn't make a proper research and sell shoddy products they should accept the consequences.

P.S. I am not saying Linksys is bad. I believe it is one of the very best.

I guess I don't see it quite the way you do. On an operation like Amazon (or Newegg, Buy.com, etc.), where the model is essentially to sell everything available, it is not going to be possible for them to pretest or research everything that comes to market. When we buy from them, we do so because of ready availability and cheap prices. I don't think Amazon is really making any statement, other than via user feedback, on the product. There is just the standard implied warranty of merchantability, and as you point out, a 30-day Amazon policy:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...odeId=15015711

So yes, if something was bad out of the box, which seems to be the case here, then by all means return it. Defective equipment should be sent back. Damaged in shipment should be something also sent back. And Amazon, if it wants to be viewed as consumer-friendly, shouldn't be penalizing people that do that much. Buy we all know, there are serial returners out there, people that return things because they didn't do their own research, or changed their mind, or somebody else is now selling it for a buck or two less. Buyer's remorse. And for serial returners, if they get dropped by a retailer, I really don't have a lot of sympathy. A retailer that tolerates that behavior, ends up charging us all more to cover it.

Would have been better, in the case of a Kindle owner, if Amazon had just restricted his/her purchases to non-returnable equipment or new eBooks, so that the device was still usable. Only the that part of all this bothers me.

[astra]

Originally Posted by pwjone1

But we all know, there are serial returners out there, people that return things because they didn't do their own research, or changed their mind, or somebody else is now selling it for a buck or two less. Buyer's remorse. And for serial returners, if they get dropped by a retailer, I really don't have a lot of sympathy. A retailer that tolerates that behavior, ends up charging us all more to cover it.

I don't argue with it.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What does Amazon actually say about how long they will keep your books available for? Fictionwise guarantee three months. Sorry, joblack, but regardless of what your "Founding Fathers" may have said, I honestly think it's unrealistic to regard an eBook as a "lifetime investment".

I see it that way. I have books from my grand-grand-father. Think about that with the Kindle ... they would be bankrupt three times (or would have stolen the books from the customers).

It's not unrealistic - especially because the paperback books paper doesn't use acids as an additive.

If you see books as a three month investment it's your thing but if I pay for literature I expect to have them a longer time.

Anyway, E-Books can actually last a long time. Especially if the format is open and known (like the PDF or html format). And the 'argument' with the cheap price isn't a real one. If you buy a used book on a flu market for 5 dollars you still have the right to collect them for 100 years.

I respect your opinion to (e-)books as a rental but I see it as an investment which stays. If you still want to throw away the (e-)book its fine but you don't have to.

[shima]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi all-

Thanks again to those who have provided me with helpful advice throughout the past 24 hours.

As I wrote earlier, I followed Amazon's cis contact procedure, and after reviewing my account, they did remove the ban and reinstate me. I can now log in once again and make purchases.

Sure, it's worrisome to learn that you can be cut off from digital purchases, but this is nothing new - anyone with an iPod (myself included) knows this, and I hope it makes us all think.

But in their favor, Amazon did clearly respond to my (politely worded) emails and welcome me back to the fold -- very quickly, I might add.

I truly believe that they are only making a sweep and closing accounts of those few customers who are trying to scam them, commit fraud, or "buy to try" - I don't think many honest customers are really affected by this, just some (like me) who got caught up accidentally...

... and surely, considering how many Amazon account bans are permanent, if my reinstatement doesn't convince people in this forum that my story is true, I'm not sure if anything else will.

All I'll say is, whenever dealing with a customer service situation, stay calm, concise and polite, and tell the truth. If you're dealing with an honest company, you'll usually be heard and listened to.

As I was today.

Lets all go read eBooks now!

Have a good afternoon-

-Ian

I am so glad to hear that you got your account re-instated. they were probably just cutting off accounts w/ "trends" and your returns / exchanges of major electronics probably just put the red flag up until you were able to get them to look over the account and realize that you are a valued customer to them who was not a scammer.

Glad to hear the happy ending, I would have been very sad for you had your Kindle not been able to see new books!

[maynard]

Originally Posted by grisjuan

It's just over a week old and failed right out of the box. There isn't an updated firmware since it is a brand new model just released by Linksys. I did reset it twice and tinkered with the settings according to Linksys support's recommendations. I am going to ask Amazon to exchange it for a new one.

Return it. If Amazon dumps you as a customer because you returned a faulty product, you're better off without them. Don't throw away $140 just because they might kick you out of their playground if you don't hand over your lunch money. Buy that product elsewhere instead.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by maynard

Return it. If Amazon dumps you as a customer because you returned a faulty product, you're better off without them. Don't throw away $140 just because they might kick you out of their playground if you don't hand over your lunch money. Buy that product elsewhere instead.

I seriously doubt they would. It seems like it takes a heck of a lot more than that to be permanently banned. But, sure, if they do it's their loss.

[krisk]

Originally Posted by grisjuan

It's just over a week old and failed right out of the box. There isn't an updated firmware since it is a brand new model just released by Linksys. I did reset it twice and tinkered with the settings according to Linksys support's recommendations. I am going to ask Amazon to exchange it for a new one.

Anyway, my point wasn't so much about the details of the router, just that the possibility of a banning made me think twice about asking Amazon to do anything at all here. I'll probably redirect some of my electronics purchases to Newegg for a while to reduce the chances that I hit the Amazon returns limit.

See, this type of hysteria is what posts like this do. If I were Amazon I'd be going after Ian with legal guns a'blazing right about now.

[snape]

Originally Posted by krisk

See, this type of hysteria is what posts like this do. If I were Amazon I'd be going after Ian with legal guns a'blazing right about now.

Why? Because he said that Amazon had banned him, and then later updated to say they'd reinstated his account? Unless either of those 2 statements are untrue, they (Amazon) don't appear to have any grounds for legal action.

Of course, if the takedown debacle is any indication, it doesn't seem Amazon is too concerned about whether they do or don't have legal standing to support their actions.