Seriously thoughtful The NEW Covid Vaccination Poll

[DiapDealer]

I'm assuming nothing. Please stop saying things like "studies have confirmed" without actually providing links to said studies.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Please stop saying things like "studies have confirmed" without actually providing links to said studies.

No.

When something is all over the news - like the CDC's recent change in mask guidance and their reasons why - there is no need to go dig up the specific studies they are basing their update on to prove it to you. When they say they made the change "based on recent studies", I feel no need to go dig up exactly which studies they are referring to just to convince you. I am perfectly happy to let you deny whatever you want to deny. Believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to continue believing the debunked and ridiculous story that vaccinated people are Typhoid Mary's spreading germs everywhere, go right ahead.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by kyteflyer

Additionally, I think that the only vax which protects somewhat against the south african variant is Moderna (or they are about to release an update to their existing… either/or).

My reading suggests the Moderna, and the Pfizer and J&J vaccines provide adequate protection against the B.1.351 (so-called South African) variant. The only one that is less than 50% effective is the Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccine.

The Oxford team are developing a vaccine that will be effective against the B.1.351 variant. If you've not had your second dose of the current AZ brew you might be lucky enough to get the new brew.

BR

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm assuming nothing. Please stop saying things like "studies have confirmed" without actually providing links to said studies.

Per the CDC, May 12, 2021:

We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms. Early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19. [emphasis added]

[DiapDealer]

Thank you for that. It doesn't seem to say exactly what haertig claims, but that's OK. "Helps people from spreading" is not "stops people from spreading. Also: "Early data."

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

All the current vaccines give some protection against all the currently known variants. I don't think there have been any studies showing whether any are better than others against particular variants.

Umm… https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2102214

A two-dose regimen of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine did not show protection against mild-to-moderate Covid-19 due to the B.1.351 variant. (Funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and others; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04444674. Pan African Clinical Trials Registry number, PACTR202006922165132. ).

By ignoring such studies and dismissing side effects like the AZ induced Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome the UK establishment is harming the objective of vaccinating the world by arming the anti-vaxxer brigade and the anything-as-long-as-its-not-from-the-UK activists.

See ==>> Dr. Nick Coatsworth: ‘Activist’ doctors’ phoney pandemic wars put recovery at risk

There is a hardcore rump of activist doctors who have been anti-Astra Zeneca since the start of this year, misquoting and misrepresenting the phase 3 trial data and, in my view, substantially undermining the national program. The management of community expectation and concern over thrombosis with thrombocytopenia has been rendered significantly more challenging in light of the misinformation campaign waged in January and February of this year by those of our colleagues who took a strident position against the AZ vaccine.

I suspect Dr Coatsworth stepped down from the position of Deputy Chief Medical Officer so that he could write articles such as this.

BR

[Deskisamess]

They believe the viral load is very low for vaccinated people.

"From 4-2-2021: Preliminary data from Israel suggest that people vaccinated with Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine who develop COVID-19 have a four-fold lower viral load than unvaccinated people. This observation may indicate reduced transmissibility, as viral load has been identified as a key driver of transmission."

From a brief search, I found several journal entries from various medical institutions that reference other studies showing the same thing. The CDC, New England Journal of Medicine, and at least 10 other medical sources. (Not just random blogs)

[BetterRed]

Added - this ↑ ↑ ↑ ✔

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If you catch it and are asymptomatic, why would you assume the vaccine would keep you from spreading it? Infected is infected, and contagious is contagious.

If a someone is infected and they are asymptomatic they are less likely to transmit the virus because they are not coughing, sneezing and spluttering the virus into the air.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Added - this ↑ ↑ ↑ ✔


If a someone is infected and they are asymptomatic they are less likely to transmit the virus because they are not coughing, sneezing and spluttering the virus into the air.

"Less Likely" sounds like a perfectly reasonable description. But it's also not the same thing as saying "not likely."

Also, not everyone is vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine mentioned in the above study. How sure are studies that those who are infected (but asymptomatic) after receiving the Janssen vaccine are less likely to transmit to others?

Are we positive all 8 Yankees who are currently testing positive after receiving the Janssen vaccine caught it from another unvaccinated person?

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Helps people from spreading" is not "stops people from spreading.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Less Likely" sounds like a perfectly reasonable description. But it's also not the same thing as saying "not likely."

You sound like a synonym denier - you should ban thesauruses from your house. Concentrate on the concept being discussed, not word minutia.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by haertig

Concentrate on the concept being discussed, not word minutia.

I AM concentrating. Which is why I don't believe experts are actually saying what you seem to need them to be saying. But whatever. Feel free to believe your amateur armchair-epidemiology-fu is stronger than mine.

[HLS]

I got the 2nd Moderna shot yesterday. No side effects other than being unusually more tired than normal and the injection site is very swollen like a bee sting and ts a bit sore and itchy.

[HLS]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Added - this ↑ ↑ ↑ ✔


If a someone is infected and they are asymptomatic they are less likely to transmit the virus because they are not coughing, sneezing and spluttering the virus into the air.

You can spread it just by breathing and people still cough even when not feeling sick

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by haertig

...The people who have chosen to go unvaccinated have to live with the consequences of their choice....

No, the first line responders and each and every person whose life is impacted by the pandemic and it's economic costs has to live with the consequences of their choice; not to mention cancer patients and others who can't get the vaccine because of compromised immune systems, the elderly who depend on others for transportation, and so many others who for whatever reason have fallen through the cracks in our medical system.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

No, the first line responders and each and every person whose life is impacted by the pandemic and it's economic costs has to live with the consequences of their choice; not to mention cancer patients and others who can't get the vaccine because of compromised immune systems, the elderly who depend on others for transportation, and so many others who for whatever reason have fallen through the cracks in our medical system.

Which is why I said:

Originally Posted by haertig

In most parts of the USA now, if you are not vaccinated you are that way by choice. There are of course exceptions to this, and there always will be. But generally speaking, people have been allowed to make their choice, and they have done so (in the USA, but not necessarily true in other countries).

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

No, the first line responders and each and every person whose life is impacted by the pandemic and it's economic costs has to live with the consequences of their choice;

Yes indeed. Just like we have to live with the consequences of other peoples choice when our political candidate is beaten by theirs. We don't get to avoid those consequences by taking away their right to choose a candidate. Just like we don't get to avoid the consequences of someone's decision not to be vaccinated by forcing them to be.

You always have to live with the consequences of others choices if you live in a free country. If you don't like that, move to a non-free country. Of course there, you have to live with the consequences of the governments choices. There really is no scenario where you get to live totally by your own choices. I wish there was.

Back to topic: Even though I very much believe the vaccines are of major benefit to us, I would never force anyone to be vaccinated. I may think that anti-vaxxers are wrong, but they are free to be wrong in my mind. Even if it affects me.